trademark Steve - You need to take the time and support those facts about thousands of jobs and billions of revenue that infamous mine would have brought in. A month ago, when I googled to find a source for those numbers, the only reference I got was JB Schmidt on Patch, the notorious and unqualified prognosticator of all things wonderful from extremely right-wing schemes.

Right on Steve! All the demorats and on rino rat voted against it! Only because they did not want WWalker and the State GOp to get credit! The wis demorats stabbed the private sector unions in the back over politics! Even the DNR said the mine was not an enviromental issue! When Walker wins this bogus recall, they will be Job's! And thousand's of them!

@John Q - Cathy Stepp is the head of the DNR, appointed by Walker. She owns a construction business and was a big opponent of the DNR. The day after the miner packed up and got out of Dodge, she was on a right wing talk show lamenting losing the mine. The Walker "mining law" had all sorts of "oversight" of the mine by the DNR,. She was obviously a setup to be rubber stamp for the mining company.

Dirk, that's correct. Stepp also circulated an opinion piece criticizing those who opposed the mine on official DNR stationary without notifying the department's communication director that she was doing so. (Stepp's screed was later posted on Patch as an Opinion piece).

Steve, the mine would have brought in about 800 "permanent" jobs (permanent as long as there was ore). The rest were temporary jobs. As I and others pointed out numerous times while that controversy evolved, the mining company's "lead team" were all from out of state, including the executive assistant and IT person. There was no guaranty on the mining company's website that Wisconsinites were going to be hired for all temporary and permanent jobs. It would make sense for them to bring in their own contractor and equipment contacts. It might make more sense to hire locals for the actual mining work. And that's before we even address the issue of trying to hide the fact that other, dangerous minerals were present in some areas of the proposed mine (even to the extent of re-defining standard terminology to include multiple, not single, minerals).

So let's keep it real about the mine. If toxins were released into the river, the cleanup would have cost far more than 800 (if that) jobs might have brought to the region for a few years.

This is the 1st time I saw Brens name with out ALEC right next to it!!!

The answer is Democrats.

Bren and Dirk are both oblivious to the jobs and economy that is brought on by a mine. 800 jobs in the mine yes, but thousands that will develop around it supporting and supplying and building a community. Democrats in the state are directly responsible for these jobs not being created. The blood is on their hands as the saying goes. It is 100% non debatable that it would not create thousands. Now those jobs go to Michigan. The fun part about that is some of the supply and manufacturing jobs still will be created around here. The mine is will only be a few miles from the proposed site in WI so your pollution argument is nul and void.

Minnesota's water around their taconite mine tests lower per gallon for sulfur than a gallon of milk. Before you continue your propaganda why not study up on the real workings of mines you all benefit from each and every day.

"There was no guaranty on the mining company's website that Wisconsinites were going to be hired for all temporary and permanent jobs."

Good grief Bren (D-WEAC) do you ever surprise yourself with the inanity of your own irrelevant conclusions and fallacies of distraction? No written guarantee on the company's website that all jobs would go to Wisconsin residents? Show us some of that "keep it real." When has a company ever pledged to do that? If some jobs were filled by skilled workers from another state would that detract from the overall economic benefit?

The company and their advance team were from out of state because the enviro-wacko's shut down the mining business in Wisconsin years ago. The neo-Luddites are ruining this state and want everyone freezing to death in the dark.

Greg, thanks for mentioning ALEC. Let's keep that radical special interest group top-of-mind, and give a word of appreciation to the patriotic corporate partners that have had enough of their ideology: Coke, Pepsi, Intuit, Gates Foundation, McDonalds, Wendy's, Proctor & Gamble, Yum Brands, Kraft Foods, et al.

Steve, your argument about the mine is the same which led to saving GM, Chrysler, and the financial industry. The latter case involved tens of thousands of direct jobs, and up to a million with indirect jobs just in the auto industry. The mine would have provided (perhaps) 800 jobs. It is impossible to expect the mine to have the tremendous economic impact that you speculate it would. The potential for environmental disaster, if fulfilled, would have a far greater impact on the region. I have nothing against mining, but the lack of transparency and placement of a rubber-stamp crony (Stepp) in charge of the DNR raised too many red flags. Minnesota conducts soil tests and shares the results. There are also millions of dollars worth of violations, clean-up orders, etc., in Minnesota and Michigan.

Adam, I'm not a Democrat, I'm not involved with WEAC. I have stated numerous times that I am not a teacher or public/government employee. But if you wish to demonstrate ignorance it is your call.

The talking points were all about Wisconsin jobs. Of course there's no guarantee. And a few hundred jobs would not have transformed the community.

You can not compare a new mine to bailing out GM. Just the thought of it is revealing.

GM was already established, even after the bailout the only thing remaining is a minority of it's original structure saved. Saved a few jobs, saved a few suppliers but created nothing. Saving 1 our of 4 employees is not job creation.

Now a new mine comes in. 100% of it is creation from the ground up, with PRIVATE funds. Not borrowed money with interest from China like GM.

A mine creates many more jobs than just what shows up to work in the facility every day. You have been explained this many times, but refuse to read it. It is the very reason we are all where we live and do not have to drive 50 miles for basic private services.

You are 100% against mining and know nothing of the real world workings of one. You have never posted anything in support of this mine, you have only taken no matter the subject the far left talking points as fact.

I present you that a gallon of milk contains more surfer than a gallon of ground water around the MN mines and you ignore it. Why would a WI mine not do constant exploration sampling for such a thing?

You forget to add in all the other job creation it would have had an impact on. Hotels, gas stations, car dealerships, stores, logisitcs, suppliers, manufactures, government, schools. The list is endless.

@ Steve = Even if each job would create an additional job you would still only be at 1,400 jobs. That would not be thousands and doubling the number is certainly a stretch.

As indicated above, most of the jobs were temporary and most of those would probably have gone to out-of-state contractors with equipment in-hand. The environmental risk to the region and tourism far outweighed the minimum benefit of a few hundred jobs over an indeterminate period. If local people were hired for those jobs there would be limited impact on government and schools. There might be an uptick in hotel and gas station revenue for the duration of the temporary jobs but again, not enough to risk safety and tourism over.

What part of the mining industry are you in Bren? Ever been to a taconite mining town?

*Crickets*

Steve, not a miner, but I did study up on the topic before posting. Yes, I have been to a taconite mining town.

I said mining industry not a direct mine employee.

How polluted was this mining area? Where did you go? Why was that town there? How many stores, business, schools were in this town that you visited?

Walker has not cut anyones pay, he has simply made state workers pay for something that all non public workers have always had to pay for. now the taxes are lower because we do not have to support all the public worker retirement plans and insurance premiums. The money saved has gone into the schools budgets to improve education and lower school property taxes. Education is the highest priority. Not the retiremnet of an overpayed and overstaffed public employee.

Bert lives in opposite land. Apparently he has never taken Economics 101 because the last thing they teach is job creation.

What kind of CEO would want to move his family to a state that is always voting and current business friendly leadership may be thrown out?

Maybe he can answer my first question.

Don, if you take a job which includes a % of employer-paid health insurance, wouldn't you consider that part of your compensation package? Then, if the employer lowers the amount paid toward your insurance premium, you would still have he same salary, but are now paying more toward your health insurance. Your net salary would be less. Essentially a "paycut." Does that make sense? Now consider the teachers. Some years back, as several teachers have informed me, they voted to take less salary to buy better health insurance coverage. So their net salaries were lower. Make sense? Then Scott Walker, ALEC, and AFP/Koch brothers attacked public employees (who had just received 16 furlough days under Doyle), accusing them of not paying "their fair share." For the teachers, who were already paying more for their health insurance, this meant being the brunt of an attack for their health insurance, then having to take a paycut supposedly to help pay for their health insurance. Essentially a double-hit.

And as we all know, the financial concessions wrung from public employees did not actually go toward helping reduce the deficit. It was used to fund the ALEC corporate tax cuts. So Don, please let's keep it real.

Steve, I think the economic climate drives current business-building right now. That's why it would poor-judgement/dishonest for Scott Walker (R-ALEC) to claim he could create 250,000 jobs in his first term.

Sorry I should have read a little more I know Bren can't go more the 50 words with out saying ALEC

JOB CREATORS are waiting to create more jobs until they see who the Gov will be, It is that simple. Also, did you miss all the 1 BILLION saved around the state when schools, for example, aren't chained to buying the rip-off WEAC teacher's health insurance? I am a former cop and union member, so I know what a JOKE it is to only ask me to pay $18.00 to cover my family for a month of health insurance and ask the taxpayers to pay the rest.
http://wisupnorth.com/2012/04/wisconsin-act-10-success-saves-tax-payers-over-1billion/

All I know is that I'm receiving $500 less per month as a teacher with my wages frozen next year for the third year in a row. With a Masters and 42 years of experience with students who excel, I'm paying for the education of your children instead of saving for my retirement. Many teachers have left the profession. Pay was always low. Without benefits and job security, who will choose to become teachers of your children when I retire?

Exactly, Mary Gregory, but these right wing extremists on here will just talk smart, they don't care about the future of public education, they would just assume it go away if it saves taxpayers just like Walker, privatize everything and pay for nothing. You are on your own, who cares about our kids education? I do and public education should have been kept in value since this is where most people can afford to send their kids, this is OUR FUTURE!

Just the typical Democrat lies. Walker cut very few jobs. You want to see dramatic cuts look at Quinn in Illinois or Cuomo in New York. But its ok for them because their democrats. For that matter, how has Barrett done on jobs?

Only poorly educated, brain washed Democrats equate paying teachers golden pensions, allowing their union health care provider to rape the taxpayer, and protecting child porn consuming teachers from proper termination as making education a priority. If Barrett makes education a priority why is Milwaukee one of the worst performing school systems in the country?

This isn't about education or jobs, its about the power of the left to continue to screw taxpayers.

@red
Take a look at these states that went RED (TeaGOP)!!

Red States See Massive Public Sector Job Losses

http://www.thenation.com/article/167050/red-states-see-massive-public-sector-job-losses

............Nearly all of the job losses took place at the state and local level, and they were most severe in a handful of GOP-controlled states. In other words, erosion of public sector employment isn’t a problem affecting the entire country equally—it’s a problem in particular states, thanks to very particular legislators. As the following chart shows, seven states laid off more than 2.5 percent of their own state and local workforce. Other states lost, on average, less than half a percent of their workforce.
 

Click to enlarge
 
Of the eleven states in which Republicans came into power in 2010 – Alabama, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – five were among the seven states that lost more than 2.5 percent of their workforce from December 2010 to December 2011. The remaining 42 states lost an average 0.5 percent (there is no data for Mississippi).

..........
red

9:35 pm on Wednesday, April 25, 2012

Just the typical Democrat lies. Walker cut very few jobs. ...................

Cut the fat, fire the pork. Elected in just over a year ago to cut their government's down to size and keeping their promises. Spin it baby, feed us so more propaganda.

Amen!

@Tom - First line of defense among extreme rightwing commenters: Blame the liberal media. Lord, that lame excuse is sooo boooring and wrong in these days of a few giant corporations running most of the media industry. Also, show examples where Patch treats news lunfairly like you state.
Second line of defense: Blame the news source. In this case, the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There they are in Washington, making it all up. "Oh, let's completely ruin our credibility forever and jock around with the numbers and make Walker look bad."

If Patch "sucks" Tom McMahon, why are you here?

Dirk, blaming the "liberal" media, which is owned by News Corp. (Fox), Time Warner, etc. is one of the projectionist talking points repeatedly endlessly on Fox, and by Limbaugh, Beck, et al. We know how liberal Fox is (when they're not hacking into celebrities' cell phones).

As I've written before, the jobs numbers are bad, it's a recession. What was egregious was Scott Walker and AFP/Koch brothers attacking public unions (item #1 on the ALEC agenda), wresting financial concessions intended to fund the ALEC corporate tax breaks instead of the deficit, while claiming that 250,000 new jobs could be created during a recession. Basically playing voters for fools. Now that we all have seen the "real" Scott Walker in action, and watched 13 mega-corporations back away from ALEC over their extremist agenda, let's see what happens in June.

“Obama” and “leads” should never be used together in the same sentence.

At least jobs are being created under Obama and he has lifted all boats, except here in Wisconsin where Walker has weighed ours down.

Here's where the chickens have come home to roost. Koch's eager beaver should have phased in these drastic cuts (listen here http://ht.ly/auBQ2) to public employee salaries. They work out to be about 30%, which any freshman in economics will tell you is a real drag on the economy. But you can't expect this college drop out to know anything about the private sector, so what he did was the equivalent of jerking the brake cord on a train.

And no. Your $11 a year in property tax relief is not going to juice the economy, or are you as intelligent as our governor?

The job loss numbers are going to have a real nifty affect on Walker's chances in the recall, along with the fact that the GOP won't be able to suppress votes. Looks there will be one more person looking for another job.

You'll have to find another way to knuckle under your Kock/Bircher masters.

Obama bringing jobs? Its real American's giving up. Unemployment among recent college grads? Fifty two percent. Can't hide that number.

Hey Keith, what about that $35,000?

I'm glad you made some of those points. Our overall average indivdual income tax in this state is much higher than what they pay in Illinois (even after their 64% increase). Our corporate tax is higher as well. Benefits to teachers in this state is higher than all neighboring states. So why would companies want to move here?

So what do the Dems propose? HIGHER TAXES! LoL!

D.D., citizens of Right to Fire states enjoy about $1,500 per annum less than those of workers in non "right to work" states. Why are you siding with Big Business at the expense of your fellow Americans? They are making record profits because they have discovered the Third World, where people will work for $.31/hour in 24 hour+ shifts (until they break down and try to commit suicide, Google "FoxConn.").

We're going to have an issue with offshoring until corporations recognize well-paid Americans buy more and help keep them in business.

And really, stop requiring humanities courses? Your spelling of the word pseudo (sudo) exemplifies why a well rounded education is needed, regardless of profession. It's discriminatory to suggest that people who work in the trades deserve fewer educational opportunities.

Bren,
I was actually in Madison during the protests. I did notice many "solidarity" and red fists driving cars built in right to work states. In addition, I saw many with iphones/pods built by Chinese children. I don't need to google "FoxConn" as I have worked with various contract manufacturers in USA, India, China, Mexico, Japan, etc. Consumer electronics will remain off shore. The USA will still manufacturer Cars, heavy industrial equipment, defense and anything where the volume and/or logistics makes sense from a cost position. Clearly, if the red fists of Wisconsin could care less if they spend $$ in the private sector why would any company be expected to build a factor in Wisconsin to pay $28 per hour when they can pay $15-18 in South Carolina. Right to work won't change off shoring that much, but it will make us more competitive with other states. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, GM, Boeing, GE, etc, etc are building all of their new plants exclusively in right to work states.. Under Doyle, we barely kept Harley and Mercury Marine.
Finally, Manufacutring labor, even in right to work states, pays a lot more than retail in Wisconsin. Long term it is our only option.

@Bren... How, specifically, will you get manufacturing companies to 'choose' to locate their manufacturing operations in Wisconsin, rather than states like South Carolina?

@Jay Sykes

We will raise taxes. Businesses love that.

We know that labor costs cut into profits. It makes "sense" for corporations to take advantage of depressed markets (take a look at the Texas/Mexico border for example). How much profit is enough, however? You are describing what has been called, "the race to the bottom." How low are you willing to go, considering no change in the cost of living?

Wonder if 'da union's' are threatening employers to keep them out of the state until they've gotten rid of Walker?

You are describing what has been called, "the race to the bottom." How low are you willing to go, considering no change in the cost of living?

--- I think that's what they said in Greece.... and Spain..... and Portugal...

How's that working out?

Lets not let facts get in the way of a good leffty story

We've had 50+ years of monopoly public education in schools run by union teachers and enlightened statists like yourself Nick, with increases in spending every year for the last 30 years. Now you say Wisconsin's intellectual deficit is the fault of 15 months of Scott Walker? Surely you don't think our public schools teach math, science and critical thinking at a level that competes with the rest of the world?

The problem is not enough cut throat and too much equality of outcome. Turn your country into a euro-style social democracy with guaranteed everything and economic sclerosis is sure to follow. Big government raises the cost of doing everything and reduces the reward for success so people and businesses take fewer risks, hire fewer employees and do less to innovate and produce. Tell me Nick, who sold out the buggy whip manufacturers 100 years ago?

Seriously? You expect the folks who waste their time and energy ranting here to get the Coriolanus reference? Dreamer!

@Anne

Esoteric allusions are a way of drawing attention to yourself and flattering yourself. I've been looking for a way to work Sr. Francis Galton into a conversation, but have failed until just now.

Anyone wanna chat about the socio-rhetorical methods of the ancient Greeks, or the dyadic personality traits of the ancient Mediterranean people?

Don't make fun of the self-described intellectuals, Luke. They're a sensitive bunch.

What a mountain of idiocy. Congratulations.

Are things getting better or worse in Wisconsin? Depends on who you are. If you're a teacher, a woman, a student or a child, the answer is probably NO. If you're a business owner, probably YES. I contend there are a heck of a lot more of the former than the latter. Scooter must go!

I agree with Anne. Walker cannot deliver on jobs to this state. I believe the negative business climate will only continue if Walker is not recalled. If I were a business owner right now here, I would consider moving if I could, talk about instability and infighting.

The only reason people are standing with Walker is over ACT 10, the tax cuts are done and it's clearly not working!

@Menoparent

I think I know why you aren't a business owner..........

Tom, a job is a job, whether it's taxpayer funded or not! It's bad for the economy either way! Walker has manipulated the system that has been working. Now it's "I'll tell you what jobs we will have in this state!"

@Menoparent

My plan is to give all the unemployed a state job with full benefits. I can't imagine what anyone could object to.

Oh yeah, and everyone gets a free car.

....and a zero turn radius mower

.....with a cupholder.

......and the car and mower are painted to match.

I am voting for the "real" tom barrett and can't wait to get my free car, etc.!

Yep I hates dem evil business menz. ... oh wait, you say women can own businesses too? Whoa!

Women pay taxes too. There are more taxpaying women that saw their taxes go down than there are teachers.

Look, this is Wisconsin - we get free beer!!

Tom ... put the crack pipe down .

Is this the same Keith Schmitz who failed at running a bookstore in Shorewood, then fails to return coop fees and a nice loan from the Village?

With your profound appreciation of risk taking, I think the folks at Ho-Chunk would like you to visit.

Funny, that formula worked very well until the 80s when Reagan changed it, then things went in the opposite direction. In fact a lot smart millionaires -- most of them for that matter -- agree.

Only the vulture capitalists and the tools, that for some unexplained reason love them, don't agree.

You make a lot of scents, Keith. You must be an ekonomist. Jimmy Carter was amazing.

If we can just raise income an property taxes another 50%, we will have to put border guards at the entrance to the state, just to keep people from streaming in.

Maybe some of them will be legals, too!!!

Isn't it vulture capitalism to open a bookstore in Shorewood, swindle folks out of 'co-op fees', then grift a loan from the Village? Come on Mr Schmitz, we know your game.

Good morning, Alfred. You still haven't learned to spell, I see.

Did you ever stop to think that for every laid off public worker that means another person competing with you for your private sector job? That exerts a downward pressure on wages. And whom does a lower wage help?

Randy old boy if you spent all of time you waste in here on Monster.com or some other job search engine, you just might find a job. Unemployment is lower in Wisconsin than most states my friend, lots of jobs to be had.

I spell goobermint and gubmint phonetically, the say way the union goons pronounce it. It is all good when a gomermint employee loses his job, less stress on folks like me...no you since you are a parasite...its all good Randy, now go get a job.

Yes, when we start to talk about people competing for jobs, I'd reather be in 6.9 percent unemployment Wisconsin than 8.5 percent unemployment Illinois. Its going to be harder to get employers to come to Illinois when the state is closing prisons and health clinics. How come we never discuss how the union friendly state of Illinois managed to underfund its state pensions by 40 percent???

Alfred are you Scott's secret lover ? Were you in the scouts ?

Alfred ... how much crack do you smoke a day ?

Yes all the natural beauty of rural Wisconsin but all the folks out there are impoverished because Democrats ran out all the businesses. We had a chance to start some solid mining jobs but the Democrats said no - just so they could criticize Walker about jobs.

As for the environment attracting companies? Companies I used to work for are moving out, they couldn't persuade talented staff to come to a high-tax, cold weather state. Red Prairie, First Brands, Thomas, we almost lost Harley and Mercury Marine under Doyle. Kohl's has hinted they may move. Which companies moved here under Doyle? That spanish train boondoggle doesn't count.

Alfred - I venture to say, from your writing style and attitude, a lot if not most of the "lefty" commenters on these pages have more at stake in paying taxes than you do. I could be wrong, you may have inherited something. And all "lefties" are not government workers, past or present. I never worked in goverment, had a corporate management career, and paid mucho taxes of every sort. Yet I am not a hateful destructionist.
You suggested I move to Illinois. Here is an idea for people like you: Live in a state with no income tax, right across the border from a state that has no sales tax. That is the Washington-Oregon border. You would all be much happier there. Why be so miserable here? Start packing.

Alfred - No wonder you are against unions. If what you say is really true, you would be one fine s.o.b. to work for. I do not know any successful businessmen, even stauch Republicans, that actually are unwise enough to talk like you do. Not even the harsh and abrasive commenter Hoffa. Are your employees illegal immigrants, with no say? Teenagers? Prisoners?
And how can we check you out, you seem to be making this up, like that immature commenter Steve and his imaginary Escalade, if you are not in actually him under a different name. How can you have all this time to comment on Patch all day if you are owning a business? B..S. Do you have a record on the Wisconsin online court database? Can we look you up ? You go there a lot to look up lefties. And reporting recall signers to their bosses. Oh,we probably won't be given that chance, you are a big important businessman...rigghtt...

I am a great guy to work for Dirk, I empower my employees to work hard and they are rewarded quite well for their efforts. Turnover is nil my friend. I can see why you were let go from middle management, you have no skills, no talent.

I drive a suburban, not an Escalade. You drive a Kia, that is who you are.

Alfred - Oh right Steve, whatever you say. It is very difficult to invent and maintain a phony persona on the internet like Alfred, one of the most vile and reprehensible characters in this and past blogs, and actually told by other conservative bloggers to cool it, and then claim he is a wonderful, empowering business leader and claim "a great guy to work for". Who talks like that? Your cred has been zero lately, now deep into negative doodoo territory.

@Dirk Gutzmiller -- You never know. Alfred could be a great guy to work for. . . if you're a golem.

@Randy1949 - Noticed over on a Patch newsblog - Monday Manhunt Near East High Led Police to Warn Students Out of Area, that Jim Price of Patch deleted one of Alfred's comments. It had something to do with an implied threat to another commenter and Alfred doing his concealed carry schtick..

Alfred - Property taxes dollars don't go to the State of Wisconsin. They go to the municipality, the county, the school district, the technical school district, and maybe a few other units depending on where you live. If your property taxes are too high you can move to a less affluent community that doesn't have the good schools and other services that Wauwatosa has, or somewhere where else where property values (and hence taxes) for a similar house are less. Or if you want to stay in Wauwatosa but can't afford the taxes, then downsize to a smaller house. If you are truly concerned about taxes, why aren't you writing about the trillions in federal tax dollars (and borrowed money) we've spent on undeclared wars and other military boondoggles.

Actually, MDS, if you look at the breakdown of your property tax bill, there is a levy that goes to the state. It's small compared to the other categories, but there is one. Also, the property tax levies are somewhat independent of the valuation. For instance, when the property values decline steeply, as they have over the past several years, the levy rates rise to compensate, and there is little change in the tax bill, other than the inevitable increase.

Alfred ... Are you always drunk and high on drugs ? Sober up man !

Alfred ... Are you a pimp ?

This IS GRAND---Scooter WILL be judged by his bad jobs creation record!

United Wisconsin ‏ @UnitedWisconsin
Scott Walker: "I'll be judged by my job creation record" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RshKAM0Kjjc&feature=share%27%2C%29 #wirecall #wiunion #unitedwi #recallwalker #reclaimwi #Wi
View video

5:47 PM - 25 Apr 12 via web · Details

Here you go TB

Visuals aid in learning (but too bad for the people in Wisconsin).

GRAPHIC: WI's job losses since Walker has been in office http://ow.ly/avNwB #wiunion #wirecall

Here you go, morninmist. Visuals. Compare, for example WI and TN to your misguided selection of visuals. Quite the contrast.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

This IS bad for ALL of Wisconsin.

In Wisc 88 ‏ @InWisc88

Walker fail! Job creators don't move to a state whose schools are under attack! #wirecall #wiunion #unitedwi #recallwalker #reclaimwi #Wi

This is bad for all of Wisconsin.

...................

John Nichols ‏ @NicholsUprising

Top Republican in WI Senate, Scott Fitzgerald, encourages Republicans to "mess around" in Democratic #wirecall primary.

@Pamela -- Then what is all this nonsense about how Scott Walker saved everyone's jobs and didn't raise taxes that I keep hearing? Don't you think that close to eighteen thousand people with either no or lower income is going to have some impact on sales tax revenues? And state income tax revenues?

@Randy1949, I would love it, if it were possible to save everyone from the heartache of not being able to provide for their family. I try to look at the big picture and I believe far more public jobs would have been lost if his changes were not made, don't you agree? Our state government was in the red. More and more people are struggling and not making enough in wages to keep up with the growing local, state and federal government. We have to try to control spending, don't you agree?. If not for the 17,000 jobs and making public workers pay into their healthcare and pensions etc.. so that there wasn't a massive layoff, or vouchers paid instead of paychecks, what would you have proposed? To keep raising taxes to keep up with a growing government and never look into any ways to make it smaller and leaner? That wouldn't make sense to me.

@Pamela -- Fine and dandy, but elsewhere Scott Walker is bragging he has saved the state a billion dollars without 'massive layoffs. http://www.htrnews.com/article/20120423/MAN0101/304240029/Walker-visits-Manitowoc-County-Highway-Department-announces-taxpayer-savings-from-Act-10

His definition of 'massive' and mine aren't the same. So, close to 18,000 people lose their jobs, others have less take-home money after contributions to health and pension benefits, and the state still loses private sector jobs on top of that?

My other question is, to whom did these tax reductions go? I certainly saw very little of it -- a total of $100 off my property tax bill. Will we be able to sustain that after the revenue shortfall from all the lost jobs hits?

I recall a lot of government employees retired voluntarily too. They didn't have to but were making their own economic decision because they were very well off with their great pensions.

Our job situation would't be so bad if Tom Barrett was running a city that produced any jobs. Its tough when your biggest city is a jobs black hole.

What was that great line from "The Wizard of Oz?" Oh yes, "I am Oz, the Great and Terrible. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

Scott Walker has turned Wisconsin 180 degrees. We're still moving, but we're no longer going forward.

Why did the unemployment rate go down to 6.8% but nationally it is over 8%?

Why did Barrett allow the majority of the states job losses to occur in Milwaukee?

Unemployment statistics have dropped drastically due to the fact that once your benefits run out and you are no longer eligible you are no longer counted in the numbers. Extended benefits and emergency benefits no longer exist. The state could have gotten more federal money but declined because it would have fallen under a owed debt to the state and not a freebie. For people to get a better understanding of how the unemployment benefits really work the state should also publish a list of the number of people that have been taken off benefits and are no longer eligible. I think that one would find the numbers to be devastating.
.

Bucky, that is completely wrong. The "unemployed" for unemployment statistics is not equivalent to those receiving unemployment benefits. Completely different numbers.

Tom ... I understand that, but add the two numbers together and what do you get ?

@Luke
Here is a nice graph for you to learn from. WI is at the BOTTOM!!

Jim Witkins ‏ @jimwitkins

#WImiddle class losing MT @WEAC: GRAPHIC: WI's job losses since Walker has been in office http://ow.ly/avNwB #wiunion #wirecall

http://media.jsonline.com/images/JOBLOSS25G.jpg

@morninmist

And here's a graphic for you:

Wisconsin is near the top: http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

I'm aware that you would like to be selective in what visual you use. The fact is that you want to make is that the Current Employment Statistics survey (CES) show a downtrend when Wisconsin is compared for a full year. What you miss is that Walker had to catch the falling knife that Doyle dropped. Walker never claimed that he would turn things around immediately.

Since the beginning of the year, the CES shows that January has had 15,700 jobs added, and February has had 8,300 jobs added, while March was down 4,500.

According to the Current Population Survey (CPS), however, March had an increase of 7,062 jobs, up 18,498 for the last 12 months.

The discrepancy between the CES and CPS comes about because the CES is gathered from industries that report the number of jobs they have, whereas the CPS is collected by calling households. The CES only reports jobs, so a person who works 3 jobs is counted three times, but that person would only be counted once in the CPS. In fact, because the CES relies upon industries reporting, it cannot include the self-employed, many construction, agricultural jobs, just to name a few. If a person takes a full-time job and drops three part-time job, the CES shows that two jobs were lost, but the CES shows the person fully employed.

Continued..

These factors result in very volatile CES stats, but rather smooth CPS stats. Therefore, jobs lost is volatile and will have big swings, whereas unemployment will have small, incremental moves.

So as things stand, Walker is on track for this year. In fact, NPR’s Planet Money interview a number of economists and reported last year that he could easily meet his goals, unless Europe fell into a recession (which it has), because Wisconsin does so much business with Europe.. This month's US Durable Goods Report shows that March had the biggest hit in three years (Thanks, Obama), but I still think it will be easy to hit the target, given the stats from the first two months.

In conclusion, the excitement over March's CES is premature. We will have months when it swings up, and months when it swings down. But in general, the CES and CPS are positively correlated, and they will converge when pulled apart. The "steady Eddie" CPS says that 6.8 unemployment will be where we slowly move from here. Any chart will show the smooth movement of the CPS and the volatile moves of the CES.

Well Luke
This IS the headline most saw yesterday--it is a lasting visual:

http://thepoliticalenvironment.blogspot.com/2012/04/walkers-alternative-universe.html
Wednesday, April 25, 2012
Walker's Alternative Universe

This was Walker's message on April 10th when he kicked off his recall campaign for re-election:

"We're headed in the right direction," Walker said. "We're turning things around. We're moving Wisconsin forward."

This is the banner headline in Wednesday's Journal Sentinel [ABOVE THE FOLD]:

State posts largest percentage job loss in U.S. over past year

@morninmist

Soitenly it must be true then. Nuyck, Nuyck.

Next to a piece of paper written on with a crayon, that site has credibility.

As for the Journal article, it actually touches on some of my points, but I go further. It doesn't contradict me, per se. But of course, I am a better reporter, so I point out the obvious statistical comparisons.

I also would have compared Barrett's record, just because I'm honest.

@Luke
Your post reminded me of the recent time when the Walker Administrator wrote his estimate for the Capitol so-called damage on the back of a piece of paper--for about 7.5 MILLION dollars. ha ha. And that was the only testimony given that day. ha ha Talk about credibility. ha ha.

...................

Luke

7:45 am on Thursday, April 26, 2012

@morninmist

Soitenly it must be true then. Nuyck, Nuyck.

Next to a piece of paper written on with a crayon, that site has credibility...............

@morninmist

Well, at least I made you laugh. But I'm always here to back up what I say.

Luke, you misunderstand the fact that raising taxes does NOT job kill an economy, it STIMULATES it! I have heard Quinn talk and even with a struggling economy their numbers and his respect and attitude towards people of his state is a heck of a lot better than ours.

@menoparent

See my discussion of your misunderstanding of the stats, above.

As for Quinn, he recently announced that he will close 14 facilities and lay off thousands of union workers.

I believe his approval rating is about 33% right now.

Jaime ... Well I guess that explains the stupid look on Walkers face all the time. Maybe she sucked the brain out of his head.

What a mess. Numbers are being slung around, names are being called, money is being spent and the State has been put in limbo with family and friends keeping distances all because of what people? Recallers need to get back to WHY this recall was started. The ISSUE IS was it right for Governor Walker to "take away" public workers collective bargaining rights. I think it was a smart decision and a fair one. I still have not been convinced that it is fair for one group of state residents to have more power than the rest of us, over decision making on issues that involve them, but directly EFFECTS ALL OF US. Yes, they pay taxes too and so do the rest of us. If there is a serious concern over the way they are being treated or are poorly compensated, that would be huge, and should be put to a public vote. Recallers act as though Scott Walker fought to become the Governor, just to tick them off and shoot himself in the foot. I give him a lot of credit for what he has had to put up with. And egad! Teachers, of all people, acting like spoiled brats that are not getting their way and turning this into a game. Families of teachers shunning friends who do not agree that their babies are being maliciously mistreated by Scott Walker. Good grief! All common sense has gone out the window!

Ooops! Sorry Luke. Didn't mean to "reply" to your comment. Just venting frustration :)

Yes Tom, it is bad.
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For Kathleen, Tom and the rest of the Democrats trying to drag this state to Hell!