Thank you Hoffa!!

Exactly. I really do try to live by that golden rule...and I didn't need a bible to tell me to do so. I make errors from time to time. But in my interactions and relationships I do try to think "how would this make ME feel" and I teach the kids to think the same. I really think that is what it all comes down to...

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!!

Hmmm... just thinking on this today... anyone want to chime in on what the difference is between News and Gossip?

If you believe that homosexuality is no more a choice than being heterosexual (and I do believe the scientific studies that show folks are born with their orientation), and you also believe that God doesn't make mistakes, that we are all part of His perfect plan, then where is there room for hate?

And for your points below about cannabalism and sexual deviants, those are mental illnesses, clearly different than being born with a sexual orientation. Mental illnesses have treatment options a lot of the time while sexual orientation is not a condition that can - or should - be cured.

Heather, Oh dear. OK. More confusion. Maybe I wasn't really awake this morning when I started writing. I do not think homosexuality is a choice. I used to, but over the years I have spoken with gay friends and read the science so far and I have changed my mind. There are so many things that are part of us that are due directly to our genetic makeup. (I think my propensity for gossip is probably one of them! :)) I don't hate homosexuals - when did I say that?

If sexual orientation is not something that should be fixed (not arguing that it IS, mind you), why do many men and women undergo sex change operations? Wouldn't that be "fixing" it in a way? I'm sure there is a role for homosexuals in our society, just as there are roles for those who like gossip (reporters maybe? :)). Unfortunately, societies have not allowed them a place over the past thousand or so years and they are struggling to establish themselves now. I could go on, but I'm sure I'll be misunderstood and someone will start yelling at me again. I'll stop.

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two completely separate issues. You can love women as a woman, but feel you should have born a man. After you get the surgery, you still love women, but now you're a man.

I wasn't talking about you hating. Sorry! What I meant more was how can there be hate (in general) toward the GLBT community if you're born with your sexual orientation already decided by genetics/biology and believe that God doesn't make mistakes. Make sense now? Sorry about that.

I don't know how one can say for sure that homosexuality is not a mental illness. I believe that it was considered to be one until the 1970s--I suspect that political correctness was the reason that it was removed from the DSM.

It's not a matter of hatred to consider homosexuality as a sickness or defect any more than saying the same about someone with OCD, depression or any other mental condition that is outside the norm, that people may or may not have been born with.

@Cow - of course it's different! But since this column is about religion, I'm not going to veer the conversation into different territory and steal away the real focus. I'm almost positive that Heather (HRG) was referring to organized religion's way of looking at the world and how opposite that seems to having a real, spiritual relationship with God.

I understand your argument is all about homosexuality (which I will not get into as there are so many facets to that issue), but I would argue that you can apply it to food. Our human (animal) instinct is to eat as much as is available because there could be lean times ahead. It's not just denying myself a pastry, it's denying myself food that is sitting right there and ready to be eaten. What about those who have an animal instinct to have sex with small children? It can be argued that they have a need - and a biological one at that. There is probably something chemically different (maybe even physically?) about their brains that makes them desire those children. Should they follow their need? It can even be taken so far as Jeffrey Dahmer who had a "need" to eat human flesh. He could have denied himself that, but would he have considered that he was living a full and happy life? Probably not, in his opinion.

Is this article all about how Christian churches and Islam frown on homosexuality?

Oh, Heather. I am comparing all of our impulses. In no way am I saying that homosexuals are in the same class as cannibals. Good grief. I guess I should exercise restraint in responding to your articles. Sorry - I guess I'm just not up to snuff on writing to express my thoughts since I don't seem to be getting through.

I believe you when you say that is not what it meant. But it did sound like it. That is why I got upset. Religious views on homosexuality are not my only issue on this "dilemma" but it is a major one for me. Not sure why - but equality for gay people has been a cause for me since I was a teen. It is something I feel very strongly about. There is so much hate in the world. So much ugliness. I never understood how or why LOVE could be intolerable to so many people.

Have you ever read the vampire books by Anne Rice? I know some people treat her works as silly, but those who've read the series and paid attention will see how she works her struggles with religion out in her books. She was Catholic as a child, but lost her faith in the church and in much of religion as she grew up and started asking difficult questions. She has recently returned to the Catholic church and has written a few (not so great, IMO) books about the life of Jesus. I would recommend reading Memnoch The Devil if you're interested.

Some people believe that the Devil is the cause of the ugliness and conflict in the world. Why does God allow it? Is God powerless to stop him or does he have a reason for allowing suffering to occur? Is it needed? If so, why? We may never know the answers or we may find out right after we close our eyes to this world. I find it interesting to imagine and discuss, but for some it becomes emotional and then the discussion breaks down and is no longer possible.

@Heather/Caledonia - I've not read Rice's vampire books, but I did read her "Jesus of Nazareth," from when Joseph and Mary return from Egypt after Harod's death. I thought it was pretty good as a story.

I also think discussions like these are interesting. As for devil/evil in the world, I think there has to be in order for us to recognize what is good in our lives. A Pentecostal minister was recently removed from his church for having an epiphany of sorts that hell exists here on earth after he saw images of suffering from Africa. I find that a fascinating change of thinking.

@Heather in Caledonia. You need to read the bible. Lucifer aka Satan aka Devil is a fallen angel. He fell from God's grace and God allowed it to happen and let the devil set up his own kingdom. He also gave humans choice and reason. Do they want to follow God or the Devil. In Revelation you will read about the final battle when God calls upon his chosen army (living and dead) to fight the devil and drive him back into hell. This is all in God's plan, whether you agree with it or wonder why God makes us suffer. He has an end plan for everyone and how we chose to lead our life, he gives us that choice, how we will spend eternity.

I chose to believe in God, without question, because without blind faith you are nothing.

@Heather A, if you get a chance, read her book that came after that one. It was better.

oompah, I'm sorry that my writing has confused the both of you. I didn't mean it that way at all and appear to not be able to express myself correctly. She was listing as part of her struggle with religion her concern that God would not accept people who follow their instincts. That was the part I wanted to address with my comments and it appears I failed to get my point across.

Denise, well put. :) Maybe next time I'll do a better job with my comments... ;)

When I read that, I think about how proud I am of that girl. That probably was a very difficult decision to not just follow along - especially at that age. It would have been so much easier to just do what was expected, read the scripts and follow everyone else. What a brave kid to really have enough insight to know that this was not her path right now and actually follow through with her decision.

@Gearhead - what a wonderful way to phrase the faith journey! It does never stop, that's for sure.

May I suggest you check out Viktor Frankl's book "Mans search for meaning." Frankl was a survivor of Auschwitz. His book reflects how he survived by finding meaning in how others found it within themselves to survive. Basically there were three kinds of people in camp. Those who were optimistic and knew they would be liberated and needed to hang on long enough to get there. Also those who were angry and wanted to live long enough to seek justice or revenge. Amazingly BOTH paths worked. But those who didn't have any deep belief about anything or had anything to live for quickly became sick or otherwise gave up and died.

While not a religious book by any means, it might give you some direction to your life. Frankl's theory—known as logotherapy, from the Greek word logos ("meaning")—holds that our primary drive in life is not pleasure, as Freud maintained, but the discovery and pursuit of what we personally find meaningful.

@Gear - let's not forget, too, the studies that show how prayer can help heal, even when a person may not know prayers are said for them. I believe this study has been replicated a number of times in different hospitals. My personal belief is that God has a path and a promise for us all as individual as our talents; it is up to us to figure out what those interests and talents are, however, and then as long as we're doing our part, God will do His.

@HeatherA. You get it. God probably has too much on His/Her plate to direct your life. But He is a great coach, and an awesome leader, if you are willing to listen.

If the 'Christian' was really 'hoping' that your friend burns in hell, I suspect that there's more to the story.

Some Christians hold the belief that non-Christians are destined to end up in Hell, but it's pretty rare for Christians to 'hope' that one ends up in hell because of their religious beliefs. It is much more common for a Christian to attempt to help one 'find Jesus' than to hope that one doesn't...

He did, in fact, say "I hope you burn in hell". Like I stated, people will and do write nasty things that they would never have the audacity to say to one's face.

I'm not disputing that he said it, I'm just doubting the reasoning behind it.

As I said, most Christians are more interested in 'saving' those who haven't 'found' Jesus, and very few actually 'hope' that someone end up in hell simply because they have non-Christian beliefs.

@Kendra I'm sorry to hear that he said that to you. I too struggle with how people comment. Heather A. and I have actually joked that people should say what they are typing out loud, and if it sounds stupid or isn't something your mother would approve of if she were in the room... then you probably shouldn't say it. We had actually talked about doing a video demonstrating this... but we haven't done it yet. I'm a big fan of having productive conversations that aren't hurtful to people. These aren't just boxes where words go... you are having a conversation with other people who have thoughts and feelings. Yeah... I know that sounds like an insanely liberal idea... but I'm not apologizing for it. ;)

I always check before I hit the Submit button - is this something I would say in a conversation face-to-face? Occasionally, I've decided against posting because, even though I would say it face-to-face, it would be likely to be taken the wrong way online. Since we don't have the benefit of non-verbal expressions on here, it's easy to miss-interpret things. Especially if it's a joke or bit of sarcasm. People do tend to take things much more seriously on here than intended sometimes.

I would say, though, that I enjoy reading comments and having conversations on The Patch more than that JT website. Talk about shouting matches... geezz.. Just remember that one of the great things about the Interent is that you can close the browser window and those people are "gone." If it bothers you to read and discuss in forums, you don't have to. I have stopped participating in discussions that have degenerated into name calling. It's much easier to leave the page than it would be to walk away from a heated argument in Real Life.

As for not proscribing to any specific religion, it may be difficult when you meet people who are determined to convert you, but please remember how lucky you are to live in a country and society where you are not forced to practice a religion. There are so many around the world who suffer and die for not wanting to worship in the way others think they should.

I agree with you 100%. I feel like if people got past the differences that divide us, we would all probably see we have more in common than not.