State Sen. Van Wanggaard Recall Election Would Take Place in Current 21st District
Wanggaard has filed a challenge to the recall petitions against him, but more than likely we'll have a recall election in the 21st District.
State Sen. Van Wanggaard has filed an official challenge against the signatures collected calling for his recall.
Democrats say they turned in 24,000 signatures when 15,353 were needed. To win his challenge, Wanggaard would need almost 9,000 invalid signatures, but that appears unlikely. He had until Feb. 9 to file his challenge documents (attached).
Still, there could still be a question over where signers have to live in order to be considered a valid signature. New district maps were drawn up last year and signed into law last August. Federal lawsuits are pending, however, questioning the validity of the new boundaries.
As it pertains to Wanggaard, the current 21st Senate District includes most of Racine County including the City of Racine, but the new 21st Senate District only includes a small piece of the city with most of Racine and Kenosha Counties (but not the City of Kenosha). Most of the City of Racine, parts of Mount Pleasant and Somers and most of the City of Kenosha would make up the new 22nd Senate District. The current 22nd is represented by Sen. Bob Wirch (D-Kenosha) who successfully beat a recall challenge last summer.
A story in The Journal Times points to a vote by the state legislature that puts recall elections prior to November 2012 in the old districts, but the Government Accountability Board will have to decide whether or not to allow signatures from citizens living in the new 21st District.
Former Sen. John Lehman, whom Wanggaard defeated in the November 2010 election, has announced he will run for his former seat in the event of a recall.
Kringle Guy
1:23 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
What? No Mickey Mouse signatures? Disappointing.
James R Hoffa
3:29 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
First off, the number of signatures actually submitted by the recall committee is actually closer to 23,000, and not 24,000 as alleged by the recall committee. The pages submitted by the recall committee contain exactly 23,598 signatures lines, and not every line on every page submitted was filled in.
Second, having reviewed the petitions myself, there are literally hundreds of pages containing signatures with out-of-jurisdiction addresses. And I mean really out-of-jurisdiction, not just the old vs the new district. There are thousands of signatures listing addresses such as La Crosse, Wausau, Liberty Grove, Sister Bay, Wisconsin Rapids, Stevens Point, Prescott, Cashton, Grant, Genoa City, Milwaukee, Mequon, Kenosha, Whitewater, Oshkosh, etc.
I thought that Brandt said that he vetted these things before submitting them? It doesn't take a genius to know that the addresses listed above are no where near Wanggaard's district, and yet those signatures were not struck by the recall committee.
In fact, Wanggaard alleges that there over 12,000 signatures on the petition coming from out-of-jurisdiction. If that's the case, then the recall most certainly fails.
James R Hoffa
5:18 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
Recently Brandt made it sound like he knew every single person circulating the petitions personally, so I have to wonder if he traveled all over the state with the petitions to meet those submitting sheets from the above listed localities.
Honestly, there should be more accountability on the recall committees to weed out CLEARLY invalid signatures, especially those coming from CLEARLY out-of-jurisdiction. By not doing this, Brandt makes the entire recall effort look like nothing more than a giant clown show.
In all reality, it will be very close as to whether or not a Wanggaard recall will be triggered or not. In either case, the recall has displayed the amount of cheating that the recall committees were willing to do in order to try and trigger a recall. Not weeding out CLEARLY invalid signatures just doesn't make you look good in my honest opinion, but rather makes it look like you're so desperate that you're willing to cheat. Especially since the recall committees did a media tour bragging about how carefully they supposedly vetted the signatures in order to obtain an accurate count.
So, why weren't the CLEARLY out-of-jurisdiction signatures weeded out by the recall committee AND where did they come up with their 24,000+ figure when the sheets submitted only contain 23,598 lines, with even less lines actually filled in by a signature?
Could Mr. Brandt please answer these questions?
MRA
5:24 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
funny how my name is not on the recall list and I signed mine name on Nov. 16, 2011 at about 3:15pm at the labor center in Racine, and I've lived in the city of Racine all my life
Heather Asiyanbi
4:17 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
@Hoffa - let's leave the personal out, remember? I thought we were on the same side with that rule!
I do think there will be a recall. I am not happy about it but it's not because I think our current state leaders are doing a fantastic job. Rather, I respect the election process and think there has to be criminal conduct supported by evidence or some other malfeasance in office.
James R Hoffa
5:24 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
Heather A -
I apologize for making it personal and retracted and re-worded my previous comment accordingly.
Thank you for catching me in a rare slip-up, and I promise to do my best not to let it happen again.
Now if only we could stop all the negative personal comments made about Walker and Wanggaard on the Patch boards.
Heather Asiyanbi
7:20 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
@Hoffa - you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you!
I, too, wish we could leave the personal out of it all the way around. Whether you agree or disagree with a bill or a stance, then say you agree or not, offer solid evidence to support your view and leave it at that.
Cynthia
7:03 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Has anyone done an article on the bills that Sen Wanggaard has authored and showing the bi-partisan support they have had? I must have missed it if they did...
Heather Asiyanbi
9:59 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@Cynthia - I've not done a list, no, but I do write stories when some of the bills are passed and what the votes are on them.
Racine Progressive
4:28 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
And that is why we made sure to get plenty of extra signatures to recall Wanggaard.
We knew that Wanggaard would try to find any possible loopholes to prevent a recall.
Randolph Brandt
4:37 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
The petitions are good, the GAB will certify them after their review and schedule the election. Wanggaard is recalled.
James R Hoffa
8:12 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
Wanggaard may very well be recalled, but that doesn't change all of the irregularities surrounding the petitions submitted, despite your personal claims of having carefully vetted them, does it? I'm just saying that given your previous assertions, I didn't expect the level of irregularities that we've seen so far and continue to see with these petitions.
Wanggaard will once again defeat Lehman by at least a six-point margin, as Lehman has nothing positive to run on, while Wanggaard already has a solid record of bi-partisanship. In fact when Lehman announced his candidacy, all he did was trash Wanggaard and Walker, while offering no unique solutions of his own, right?
Lehman presided over the worst job loss the state has experienced since the Great Depression. Not to mention that his only offered solutions are to raise taxes, increase the size of government, and spend more money. You guys lost on that platform last time, remember? What makes you think it will all of a sudden work for you now?
Cynthia
7:22 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
It's very telling WHO the left wants running WI. They are being played by the unions to control our Government. Taxes would have to be raised 17.7% to cover union demands....
WI added 1.7 Billion to Medicare and didn't raise taxes... Yet they want to be like IL who cut Medicare and raised taxes... Also they Can't fund their pensions and they are a mess...
You know darn well that dems doing the budget in Wi would have been the same way... Taxes raised and Medicare cut... Dems would have also cut education and done a massive layoff, they have done this in their past budgets. They would also be left with a large deficit. MN would not have been paid back, transportation fund and DR fund would still be sitting in the courts with the money not paid back. WI credit rating wound have been downgraded and the business environment would be further in the toilet.
WI made many positive moves this past year and SHE defiantly is moving FORWARD.
mau
5:49 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012
There shouldn't be any invalid signatures, on any of the recall petitions, in the first place. And EVERY name and signature should be readable. How has our political system become so corrupt, right down to the citizens.
jt
7:42 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@hoffa and mau, what is your veiw on foreclosure releif being used by the state to be used by the governor to reduce his 2012-2013 budget shortfall? and also, what do you think of walkers current claim that he will raid the wisconsin retirement and use monies from it? and yes, this applies to waangard because he always votes in favor of the governor's plans.
James R Hoffa
12:56 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@jt 'john' -
If you really want to know my sentiments on the issue you raise, see the comments to Denise's piece which focuses on the mortgage crisis. You can find it here:
http://mountpleasant.patch.com/articles/discussion-did-we-learn-our-lesson-in-this-mortgage-crisis
mau
1:11 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
I'm trying to find a current 2012 article that talks about "walkers current claim that he will raid the wisconsin retirement".
As far as the foreclosure relief lets see how much if any actually makes it to the state. I have qualms about that whole foreclosure relief. Beginning of the nightly news, interview of Andrew Ross Sorkin author or Too Big To Fail, take on this "relief". http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/18424748#46334363
Rees Roberts
11:36 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Cynthia, you say "They are being played by the unions to control our Government." If you were liberal wouldn't you just argue that the conservatives are being played by corporations to control our government? Same thing actually. The real reason Walker wanted to bust the unions was to do away with the funding that comes from the unions. Now what would happen if we just did away with all outside funding? From corporations and unions? Hmmm, wouldn't that be a piece of fresh air.
Cynthia
12:10 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
What unions were busted and when did Gov. Walker say he wanted to 'bust' unions?
James R Hoffa
1:19 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@Rees -
The problem isn't with union money or corporate money being involved in supporting certain candidates, it's about either the perception or the reality of the matter that the money is used to buy political favoritism from those candidates, correct?
After all, if big labor or the Koch Bros are giving money to certain candidates merely because they agree with and support the candidate's platform/ideologies, then there's no issue, right? It's only when that money is either actually used or perceived to be used to buy political favoritism from the candidate once they are in a position of power, correct?
So, wouldn't the obvious solution be blind campaign funds, wherein it is never ever revealed to anyone, and especially the candidate, from whom or where the money supporting them is coming from? Wouldn't that return things to being solely about the issues and the candidate's platform/ideologies/solutions to those issues?
I'd be all for something like this, as it would adequately preserve everyone's freedom of speech while eliminating the problem that the current system's policy of full public disclosure causes, right?
So let's do it!
Rees Roberts
12:59 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Cynthia, I believe this article explains it very well.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/03/09/wisconsin-republicans-sneak-through-union-busting-bill-without-democrats/
Cynthia
12:08 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Rees I am very well aware of how Act 10 was passed.... I researched every law used.... How long it took... who tried to compromise... and who the cowards were....
Rees Roberts
1:16 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Further,
It is precisely because Walker never said anything about busting unions when he ran for Governor but did exactly that when he came to office is why people are so upset. So your question about "when did Gov Walker say he wanted to 'bust' unions" says more about you wanting to slant the question as if he was totally unaware. Nice try.
Cynthia
12:10 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
What unions were busted? Do you realize that over 27 States either limit or ban collective bargaining privileges? They still have unions.............. tell me again.... How did Act 10 'bust' unions?
Rees Roberts
5:22 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@lias Hoffa
If resources were equal then your point may work. However, corporations are always going to have more money than any union. Because of that your view would result in those candidates supported by corporations always winning. The sheer amount of money available from corporations would always make for one sided elections. Just look at the results of any election sponsored with a huge difference in money for advertising. It always (or very very often) provides a win for that candidate.
What we need is a set of fair rules, a short but involved campaign with debates run by neutral parties (certainly not the media). Note the choice of dumb questions that are asked of presidential candidates. We sure do not need over a year to decide the next president. People are tuning out if for no other reason they have seen enough negative information to last a life time.
Until we get money out of all politics our country will always be in trouble. Whether it be elections or lobbying, it makes no difference. The people will need to take their country back by demanding the elimination of high stakes money driven politics.
James R Hoffa
6:32 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@Rees -
But how do you do that without trampling on our freedom of speech guaranteed by the First Amendment? Remember, it guarantees your opportunity to speech, period - not for the outcome equality of speech. Suggesting that it should somehow be 'outcome equal' is a huge shift away from the traditional intention of that freedom and a dangerous slippery-slope precedent to set, don't you think?
Also, money doesn't vote - only people can. Ventura won in Minnesota spending less than $300k, while both his opponents spent millions, remember? The voters have to be held accountable for being able to think for themselves instead of allowing themselves to be dictated to by a commercial.
If you see a problem, blame the junkies, not the dealers, as without demand, all the supply in the world is good for naught.
Rees Roberts
6:18 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@lias Hoffa
Further, my gut is telling me that what I suggest above is going to take quite a huge event to occur to make those changes real. To make themt real, something that brings us collectively to our knees will occur. It can happen. Remember the Soviet Union? You may laugh at me but the state of our affairs currently is not what I see as bright. And nothing that either side is saying is going to make much difference.
We are living at a critical time when earth resources are or have peaked. We deprive our earth of energy in the form of fossil fuels required for our economy, plants/trees which provide us oxygen and everything from pharmaceuticals to lumber. We consume like there is no tomorrow. Well, we should reappraise that.
We need to forge a way for us to start believing in ourselves by cooperating, to strive to come together to reduce our energy usage. Remember, we do not have a national energy plan. Why is that? Because the alternative is so damn politically unfathomable they cringe at the thought of even suggesting what needs to be done. We have created a urban society that is unsustainable. In a hundred years life will look nothing like it currently does. But mother earth will force herself on us whether we like it or not. It simply will cost us too much to continue this lifestyle. Fear is our enemy. Cooperation and understanding is our future. The heck with politics as usual.
Rees Roberts
7:41 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@llias Hoffa
1st amendment rights were meant to be for people. Period. Not corporations, irregardless what our Supreme Court has said. Show me a corporate entity that can spill real blood and you can take money from them. But of course you can't. So, your argument is just that - an argument.
In your world you hook someone with a drug and then blame them they can't get off of it. What world do you live in? Someone who is truly on addictive drugs is unable to get off of them without help. Their body needs that drug. So it's going to do whatever it takes to get it. Hence our drug problems. But to blame it on the junky is just plain wrong. If the dealer never gave it to them in the first place they wouldn't be a junky. Nice try.
James R Hoffa
8:22 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
@Rees -
It's arguable as to whether or not it was intended for corps or any non-individual entities to be entitled to free speech protections, as those entities routinely engage in speech all the time, do they not? If we started limiting their speech, where would it stop? What if the party in power enacted legislation which said that activist groups couldn't publicly release speech that bad mouthed the Koch Bros?
When it comes to our Constitutionally protected freedoms, isn't it best to error on the side on inclusion as opposed to exclusion, as the framers intended?
But, for the sake of argument, let's say that we did exclude entities from engaging in political speech and that only individuals could so. The Koch Bros, George Soros, Warren Buffet, etc. are all people aren't they? And just because they are wealthy doesn't give us the right to limit their speech, does it? Remember, equal opportunity for speech, but not equality of outcome.
I still think that blind funds are the way to handle it, as it eliminates the stink without limiting individual rights.
The dealer could give someone all the drugs in the world, but if the person was resistant to ingesting the drugs, then it would all be for naught, right? The real control and problem lies in the demand, not the supply. Shouldn't we exercise self-control and demand personal responsibility from ourselves and our leaders instead of constantly blaming others, pointing the figure, and passing the buck?
morninmist
6:33 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
YUP. Rebuttals just posted.---
http://webapps.wi.gov/sites/recall/Rebuttal/Senate%20Recall%20Committees%27%20Consolidated%20Brief.pdf