Heckle and Jeckle and Bren.

The three stooges.

Heckle, Jeckle, Bren, and Ima. The 3 funny Marx brothers and Ima, the fourth brother who couldn't act and was seldom seen. ; )

Poor Bren - always living in the past regarding Walker instead of the present and always speculating and making false presumptions about Ryan.

And what was the 1% increase in spending on exactly - Medicaid. You're right, that never should have happened. I'll ask Walker to remedy this in the next biennium. That program should have been cut instead of expanded upon. Thanks for looking out for us Bren!

Couldn't you put your disdain about the Ryan and Walker into a narrative story for us concerning your uncle's inlawed sister's daughter's third roommate in college, twice removed, as that would really assist readers in humanizing your hatred?!?!

;-)

Wow - Talk about having your head in a very difficult place to put it. Take a couple of minutes and read the Declaration of Independence.

Mr. Hoffa, it would be convenient to forget about Scott Walker's past financial and legal indiscretions, but our past deeds determine who we are in the present. As a fiscal conservative I find a spending increase unacceptable. If state employees were to have a salary cut (if actually legal since it was found not to be so in Milwaukee County) the funds should have gone toward the bottom line/deficit, not to create a corporate tax cut pot. Someone who knew what they were doing could have managed the process more effectively.

If you have read or heard any statement from Paul Ryan indicating that he would eschew his Congressional healthcare plan for his own, please provide a link. Until then, my speculation is reasonable.

Mr. Hoffa, I don't "hate" either of these men. No need for dramatics!

@Bren -

"... but our past deeds determine who we are in the present."

So, I guess in Bren's world, if you've ever been convicted of a crime or ever made a mistake, no matter how miniscule, Bren will hold it against you and your character for the rest of your days! Bren probably still holds G-d accountable for the great flood that killed everyone on earth except Noah and his family in the Ark. 'Forgiveness,' 'rehabilitation,' and 'learning from mistakes' are apparently foreign concepts to Bren! You must be perfect, otherwise, how do you live with yourself?

"If state employees were to have a salary cut (if actually legal since it was found not to be so in Milwaukee County) the funds should have gone toward the bottom line/deficit, not to create a corporate tax cut pot. Someone who knew what they were doing could have managed the process more effectively."

Bren, first off Walker's attempted control of subordinate employee compensation in Mil. County was not de facto or even facially illegal as I explained in another post on this board. And if the same elected officials that are charged with taxing us and/or borrowing money in our names can't control how they spend the money, then what good is it having an elected official in the first place? May as well just let the public sector unions run the government unhindered, right?

Second, taxes only belong to the government after it forcibly takes them from someone under threat of penalty, so a tax break isn't any kind of trade off as you claim it to be.

Third, are you telling me that you're preferred leader wouldn't have offered the same kind of tax incentives that other states are in competing for private sector employers? Without those breaks, what kind of industrial business would want to locate here vs a state that offered such breaks? In fact, all of the industry that has chosen to either stay here or is moving/expanding here has attributed those breaks as being the primary reason for doing so. Without industry, where are mass family sustaining jobs going to come from?

"If you have read or heard any statement from Paul Ryan indicating that he would eschew his Congressional healthcare plan for his own, please provide a link."

Instead of speculating, why don't you show me where Ryan's budget expressly excludes application to members of Congress, as I can't find such a reference anywhere in either proposed forms of the Path to Prosperity - can you?

You really are something else Bren!

Mr. Hoffa, I was referring to character building. The furloughs and firings were indeed proved illegal and Milwaukee County has to reimburse/reinstate the abused employees (check the Journal).

Concerning the Paul Ryan budget plan, it would affect Congressfolk too. However. They receive a congressional pension and healthcare.

Paul Ryan: Congressional pension and healthcare (with $ adjustments for cost increases), Social Security, Medicare.
You: Not so much.

So I rinse and repeat: Show me, anywhere, where Paul promises to give up his Congressional bennies to live on his own budget plan. Then we'll "talk." ; )

M C --- Walker and Ryan are leading this state and this country away from failed statism, and don't you forget it.

And right in the arms of failed corporatism. Walker is a bagman for billionaires.

Just curious M C and please don't take this as an assault on your intelligence or your comment, what is your definition of failure? We are always interested in how people arrive at their opinions.

M C, you're welcome.

Keith Best, I looked at your political cartoon and have to ask. Do you honestly believe that Obama is a Communist (share and share alike?). There are some who can't get their heads around Socialism, but I'm surprised that you would consider him a Communist. True Communism existed in the Jamestown Colony (which certainly predates Karl Marx) but I honestly know of no other society that truly espoused this political system. Please provide your rationale, thanks,

Give the boogeyman billionaire conspiracy theories a rest already!

No one is buying it anymore!

No Barry Soetoro, or one of his other many alias Barack Obama ..is a Fascist just like Bush just like most them .. this is the merger of Coporate and Government powers .. the Too BIG to Jail Crowd .. and here you are defending these POS .. it makes Real Americans mad

Oh please, give it up Kenneth London. What brought on the fiscal woes of this country was the tremendous amount of people that took on more house than they could afford and Democrats said....."no problem here." Top that off with the government way over-spending, and now Ryan wants to save what we can for those elderly, sick, chiildren and poor, so they at least have some type of safety net before it all crashes.

@Keith Best...You continually prove you don't have a single thought outside of the political right's talking points. Complex problems develop from a myriad of variables and you want to blame the victims of one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting nation. It took us 30 years to reach the financial collapse and it will take time to recover. The Great Depression and recovery took over fifteen years to finally restore the nation and resulted in a new nation and economy that few could envision in 1930.

If you were a student of history you would fully understand the pitfalls of the Ryan Plan and how it deviates from intentions and principles of Thomas Jefferson and other founders. Ryan's devotion to Ayn Rand and her philosophy is not only disturbing but can, at best, be considered treasonous. He sees himself as the physical incarnation of John Galt saving a world gone wrong. Others of that Ayn Rand School are people like Alan Greenspan who now admits his wrong direction. To trust a devotee (Ryan) of a failed philosophy, is a sure path to disaster and a fool's errand.

Hey Keith Worst. Anyone who supported the Iraq invasion or the Bush tax cuts should kindly zip when it comes to the deficit. You have no intellectual standing. I'm being kind here.

Hey Lyle Ruble & Keith Schmitz----Have you been to a Ryan Townhall where he explains where this country is at or where it's headed? I have.....and it makes perfect sense to me and almost all of the others who attend, except for the socialists/ marxists there.
I could not disagree with both of you more, for I believe in every word I write and will continue to do so until my dying day. Freedom and Liberty, NOBAMA 2012!

It amazes me how everyone wants to blame our recent economic woes on one party or event. We arrived at this point due to a unique confluence of events. If asked to assign the major contributory factors on a percentage basis:

35% Housing (started w/LBJ removing FRE & FNM from the federal budget...)
15% Supply Side Economics overreach (taxes about right in the Clinton years)
15% Social Programs w/out stated results (happy is not a result; #'s please)
20% One World Economy (beyond our control)
15% All the other odds & ends***

We find it quite intriguing to read the interesting comments post here by both sides of this argument. We use the word "interesting" because both sides believe full heartedly that they are right. Now is that common sense, udcide? Continue to let the powers to be divide us, and the only winners will be the existing powers with their hidden agendas. When will both sides realize this and focus on the real evil within?

Mr. Ruble, I'm not sure if Keith is a student of history, but evidence suggests that his education background doesn't include pol sci. Regard the political cartoon he added above, which places an Obama emblem on a Communist sickle.

So why is OBAMA attacking lebanon, probably Syria and Iran ..he has drones everyhwere, Obama has done nothing to stop wall street , where is glass stegal .. Obama is to busy playing golf and listening to his masters Jamie Dimon, and Lloyd Blakenfein to FIX anything .. So it is both of them at fault, but instead of blasting YOUR party .. you keep the BS rhetoric going .. grow up and figure it out

It's amazing what America his devolved into - a nation of spoiled finger pointers! Indeed, America has become an extreme nation, in the hypocrisy of its people!

Everyone wants to blame our political leaders on either side of the aisle for our own self-induced woes. When will the people of this nation wake up and start looking in the mirror?

Concerning the housing crisis, Dick Fuld said it best when he said:

"You know, people act like we’re crack dealers. Nobody put a gun to anybody’s head and said: “Hey nimrod, buy a house you can’t afford and you know what, while you’re at it put a line of credit on that baby and buy yourself a boat.”

But instead of blaming your own self-indulgence, you blame the crack dealer without realizing that the crack dealer only had power and wealth because you enabled him via your own greed and over extension. PLEASE!

Concerning the unions and the labor movement, it's amazing that you'll make the journey to protest in Madison, claiming to adhere to the principles of solidarity, when you drove there in a foreign non-union labor made vehicle and then act to participate in the boycott of local private sector union labor made products. Again - PLEASE!

Concerning the jobs situation, is there really any question that the reason we don't have much heavy industry in the country anymore is because you voted time and again with your wallet and dollar bills for cheap foreign made products over our own? Again - PLEASE!

This list is quite literally endless. The point is that the only way this country will ever see any kind of real change is if we wake up and take personal responsibility for our own stupidity - and that's something that a politician can't do. It must come from within. So the real question is, when are you going to start changing?

Stop with the finger pointing and start practicing what you're preaching!

@Tyler Sweeney ... If Walker only felt the same way that you feel about him. Your only dirt on his shoes.

Tyler, Do not listen to anything that this puke has to say. He is the pond scum that posted the bogus Walker love child story, on every blog he could. Independent Thinker, AKA Bucky, AKA ReCall is moronic trash.

@Greg ... Your so F in easy. You have to be the biggest idot on here. Besides being a sissy and a coward.

You don't like me? Darn...

John, deal with it. SCOTT WALKER WON.
And so did the state of Wisconsin.

Walker won ... the state of Wisconsin lost.

@John...I oppose the political right and I find Scott Walker to be an unbridled opportunist. However, your reference to his sexual preference is unwarranted. Let's leave the pejorative claims and comments to others. Step up to argue on a higher level and not gutter comments.

@John -

Staying classy and sticking to the issues I see - way to go, sport!

@John -

"...he's due a day in court shortly."

Ed Schultz has been saying that same thing for over a year and a half now. Remember this little gem from a month ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vapsfffHj3Y

And Barrett tried running a majority of his recall election campaign on that falsehood.

The John Doe is nothing but a partisan witch hunt at this point. Instead of wasting more time and money on something that will go absolutely nowhere, perhaps the Milwaukee County DA should be investigating and prosecuting all the out-of-state SEIU union people that committed voter fraud out of a Milwaukee area hotel last year.

The Wisconsin Dems have and continue to show that they're not interested in trying to work with Walker and the Republicans, and never were.

The Democratic Party and its supporters in this state have become little more than an international joke.

Your side lost. But instead of wanting to come together to move forward, you want to continue the temper tantrum - how did that work out for you last time?

James ... I still think that the shits going to hit the fan and Walkers going down. If you can't do the time Walker should have not done the crime. Investigations take time and Im willing to wait as long as it takes to see that scum bag go to jail.

@Bucky -

Watergate didn't even take this long! Get away from your delusional conspiracy theories and drop your hateful vitriol already - it's getting really old and uninspired.

@Keith Best...Where in my comment did I specifically call out Republicans over the last 30 years? The truth be told; serious deregulation began under the Carter Administration and accelerated under Reagan and HW Bush. This was in support of a change in macroeconomic policy, going from Keynesian economics over to the Chicago School and Austrian School of macroeconomics, supply side and trickle down. What the supply side model called for was the following:
1. Government deregulation and industry self-regulation
2. The elimination of trade barriers
3. The reduction of prices
4, The reduction of taxes, theoretically freeing up money to be spent on consumption, thus continually growing the economy.

What is obvious now is that the theory, based on the rationality of the citizen, has completely failed. All Paul Ryan is doing is continuing the failed macroeconomics.
My answer and plan is to cut government where it makes sense, largely cutting defense and business subsidies and increase tax revenues to support the recovery.

@Brian .. hmmm 9/11 i still wonder how building 7 fell, no plane hit it ... and NO steel frame building has every fallen from fire ..but yet it was the muslims, complete BS .. we have a criminal government ... Watch the latest from AE911truth(dot)org .. IDK if everyone is too afraid to find out what really happened .. but NO ONE asks the questions .. the PRAVDA Media is disgracefull ... and here people wonder which criminal to "elect" in 2012 ... it boggles my mind

WOW! "Johnny Blade," you're a birther AND a truther? Holy cow; your cognitive disability is more severe than I thought. Now I feel really bad for arguing with you without being both drunk and stoned; you must have felt like a dog being lectured on astrophysics.

Ok .. please give me your "scientific" explanation for building 7 falling, you see there are enigneers who doubt the BS official story? By the way it will be Barry's SSN number which will be his undoing ... But i see how you have learned from Bill Clinton, you don't fight the reality (truth) you make fun and discredit the attacker .. Nice work .. So maybe one day you will grow up and realize your stupidity ... But i do want your explanation for building 7, i saw it fall and i have seen steel frame buildings burn for hours and hours and NOT one fell ... My guess is your some kind of slime ball lawyer and we know lawyers wouldn't no the TRUTH

Johnny Played,

I think it's obvious; Barry Soetero, the Illuminati, the Masons, the New World Order, some aliens, some robots, the Fed, and the Jews all just walked right into building 7 with nano-thermite hidden inside their body cavities, to attend a chili cook-off hosted by none other than George Soros. Then, on their way out, they discretely tooted nano-thermite (now accompanied by a methane catalyst) all over the place, which ignited when the planes hit.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously in league with the Anti-Defamation League. And/or is a robot and/or an alien. The truth will come out!

At the time of the bombings, one of my colleague's husband was an engineer. He said that the planes hit at strategic structural points of the WTC towers. The heat from the explosions melted the metal infrastructures and the towers collapsed (pancaking). Building 7, the tallest structure nearby, was hit by a perimeter wall of one of the towers, was battling massive fires and there were fears of building collapse, which occurred several hours later. I'm not an engineer and the images are hard to look at even after all this time, but if you do you'll see he's correct.

He also said that the other successful terrorist strategy was in the airports selected. This engineer traveled on the east coast a great deal for work and said the airports chosen had the most lax security.

Johnny, it's hard to accept 9/11. Mistakes were made. But the most important thing to remember is not to blame Muslims for the attacks, but a terrorist network that also plagues Europe, Africa, southern Asia and the Middle East.

If you were 15 years old a comment like this might be excusable. You're older than I am and I remember stretches of heat like this in the past. Unless you were out in it a bit too long over the past couple days, there's no excuse being so utterly shallow.

If you want to argue a point about climate change, at least attempt to do it with some intelligence.

Keith Schmitz....it's summer time.
This is just a replay of the summer of 1988, and many summers before that.
Once in a while it gets hotter than other summers, and this has been happening since way before man burned fossil fuels,

@Schmitzy -

So, according to your logic and 'scientific knowledge,' I guess we can ditch all the snowplows and blowers and furnaces and sweaters because global warming should mean that we'll never have to worry about frigid arctic temperatures and snow ever again, right?

There goes ice-fishing and snow-mobiling in the state!

Thank you Keif, for the weather report...and now back to our regularly scheduled blog, take it away...

You right-wing loons should think carefully about whether there's any objective difference between your conspiratorial climate-change denial, and "Johnny Blade's" fevered ramblings about Barry Soetoro and Building 7.

It's a good thing the Republican Party is a big tent, and can welcome so many different types of lunacy.

@Taoist -

I'm still waiting for you to provide us with the cite to Obama's admission that his campaign promise regarding reducing the federal deficit / debt was a mistake. You said that you could cite us to such an admission over on the other board, but have failed to do so thus far.

Why have we heard nothing but crickets from you regarding your prior assertion? Or are you taking a page out of Obama's book and failing to come through on your promise and then not admitting that making the promise was in fact a mistake in the first place?

We're waiting...

Hoffa,

You're right, I'm taking a page from the President's book - remember when all of those idiots were calling for his birth certificate, and he didn't release it for months, and then when he did everyone from Dobbs to Trump was unmasked as a craven and opportunistic America-hater? Well, that's what I've got in mind for you. Keep playing your part brilliantly!

Now, let's get back to the subject of the GOP being a haven for the paranoid and the delusional. Your thoughts?

@Taoist -

The topic of the article / board is Obama's broken campaign promises regarding federal deficit spending / debt accumulation. Shifting the subject to talk about birth certificates and alleged conservative paranoia / lunacy isn't going to work for you here.

You unequivocally stated that you could cite to something showing how Obama admitted after the fact that such promises were a mistake. You did this after slamming Walker on his job creation campaign promise, despite the fact that Walker at least had the character, integrity, humility, and respect towards his constituency to admit that such a specific promise was in fact a mistake.

Now, since you appear to be admitting that Obama lacks the character, integrity, humility, and respect towards his constituency that Walker has, you attempt to shift the subject to detract from the reality of the situation while conducting yourself in most dis-honorable way and taking no personal responsibility for your own short comings in failing to deliver on your previously asserted promise of providing us with a citation.

So, how about you just ADMIT that you were WRONG, that Hoffa was RIGHT, and that Walker is a more righteous / virtuous man than Obama?

Wow - Jimmy Huffer, the Queen of the non sequitor, with the obsession with digression, is calling me out for being off topic. As always happens, as you well know, this conversation has devolved into a school of conservative squids self-righteously squirting their ink into these ostensibly public waters.

Never fear; when I feel like doing anything more than ridiculing you and Johnny Blade (who may as well be an alias of yours, since you share his capacity for rational thought), I'll find your quote. In the meantime, you can sputter and spew and try to justify your failure to take up my gauntlet - a $10,000 bet that Scott Walker won't be able to create 250,000 jobs, as he so thoughtlessly and arrogantly proclaimed during the campaign. Come on - if Scott Walker can do no wrong, if Act 10 is working so well, if Wisconsin is moving in the right direction, then what are you afraid of? I'm serious, man - you bring $10,000, I'll have my intermediary bring $10,000, we'll put it in a safety deposit box and give the key to an attorney. Let's see if you've got the sack to back up your bluster! Let's bet $10K, Romney-style!

@Taoist -

I'm not the one who asserted an absolute, was I? To the contrary, that was you, and in regards to multiple issues.

I also stated time and again that I never believed Walker's promise on its technical merits, but only believed in the spirit of such promise. So why would you expect me to even entertain such a wager as the one that you have proposed? Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

You've effectively proven that you're nothing but a closed minded liberal elitist.

Hmm, Hoffa -

So you didn't believe Scott Walker's promise, and that means he shouldn't be held accountable for it? That's a weird definition of accountability that you're working with, but OK...

By comparison, then, the fact that you are holding the President accountable means that you believed him? Well, in 2008, BEFORE Bush's financial collapse, so did I! But then, you know, there was this thing called the global financial collapse, and revenues went through the floor, so the debt increased - none of which, of course, had anything to do with the President.

Of course, the events of late 2008 didn't happen, in your worldview - or maybe they were Obama's fault? I don't know, I can't keep track of all of the dissembling the GOP does on that point. But where would the GOP, or you, be without hypocrisy and alternate realities?

"But Ryan shot back that Obama had repeated his promises to reduce the deficit both after his election in November and again after his inauguration in January 2009."

So, Gag, you agree with Hoffa that, because Scott Walker was obviously talking out of his a$$, nobody should ever have taken his 250,000 jobs pledge seriously, and thus he shouldn't be held accountable for it?

Crocofpoo, Is that really what you got out of that post?

This is still out there for you:

I've got ten grand that says Governor Walker will get closer to creating 250,000 jobs, in his first term, than President Obama will get to cutting the deficit in half, in his first term.

Let's get that money in the safety deposit box. Let's see if you've got the sack to back up your bluster!

@Taoist -

The ability to create private sector jobs is clearly not within the realm of power available to Walker as Governor, is it? In the contrary, the ability to veto spending bills is well within the realm of power available to Obama as President, isn't it? Did I honestly need to explain that to you?

Too bad your highly rationalized response completely ignores the contrasting realities of the differing situations, as well as your failure to recognize the fact that Obama doubled down on such a pledge after all of the events that you've referenced had already occurred. In other words, your response isn't so rational or based upon reality after all, is it?

What's the back up? Blame Bush - yeah, that's what I thought.

It takes a great man to admit when he's wrong, and Walker proved himself to be such a man. Meanwhile, all Obama has done is finger point and blame others. I hope that you're raising your children to be just like Obama, because this country's future depends on having more people with such a mindset - personal responsibility be damned!

You are a sad individual!

Only an idiot would not have realized that a governor cannot create private sector jobs, but rather merely has the power to create an environment in which private sector job creation can flourish. Accepting the widely known realities on the limitations of the powers of a governor suggests that Walker should be held accountable for conforming to the spirit of his promise, and not to the technical letter of such. And to such end, Walker has been consistently performing to date, hasn't he? Not to mention that job creation continues to improve in the state and Walker still has 2.5 years to the fruition date of such promise.

And yes, I'd be making the same argument for Obama, however, he not only breached the technical nature of his promise, but also the spirit of such by acting in a completely contrary direction to his promise by allowing federal deficit spending and debt accumulation to actually INCREASE, instead of decrease.

While Walker is headed in the right direction, Obama did a complete 180 and is headed off in a completely opposite direction!

I'd say the differences here are HUGE, wouldn’t you if you were being objectively honest about the situation?

Okay, I'm going to sum up Hoffa's points for the class:

1. Private sector job growth is not something that the Governor can promise. Therefore, he didn't promise it. Just ignore everything you may have read or heard about the governor promising that.

2. Since Walker never promised to create 250,000 jobs (see above), anyone who says that he did, or tries to hold him accountable for it is just a sad individual.

I think this is a pretty clear distillation of your thoughts on the subject. They're completely divorced from the commonly accepted standard of basic reasoning, but that doesn't seem to bother you. Indeed, it's probably a necessary aspect of the conservative mindset.

However, you may want to go in for an MRI or CT scan, since a cognitive blind spot that big could be symptomatic of a tumor, or recent untreated trauma. Maybe Greg could drive you! Good Luck!

@Taoist -

You've just proven that you do indeed have a very real and very severe reading comprehension problem, as your summary does not reflect the points that I'm making at all. Plus you keep forgetting or are purposefully ignoring the fact that Walker admitted to the mistake of making such a promise, which shows his righteousness as a principled leader.

But because you can't honestly say the same thing about Obama, you'll ignore the reality of the fallacies of your position and attempt to distort my points to others in order to continue to think that your adopted ideology is the best thing since sliced bread and that your superior intellect is a gift upon the masses of the world. All hail the mighty Taoist - king of the intellectual elitist liberals!

Here's an honest observation for you - when you hear people around you laughing, they're not laughing with you as you constantly reassure yourself!

The press conference yesterday was the only time that either Walker or Ryan will ever again field questions and/or talk to constituents?

When's the last time you visited your mental health professional, cause you may want to either schedule additional appointments and/or ask for your money back!

Does Scott Walker do press conferences and speeches to anything else but a cherry picked audience these days, Mr. Hoffa? And I'm well aware that deep questions don't matter to Paul Ryan as he simply and repeatedly burbles talking points to every question. So really, what difference if they do it on TV, in controlled circumstances, or just rote recite talking points?

@Bren -

What would you prefer Walker do exactly? Just sit there and listen to angry recallers deride him and constantly equate him and his ideology to Hitler? He's been doing that non-stop for over a year and half now - isn't it time to move on?

As for Ryan, he has many townhalls scheduled. If you're so interested, why don't you try attending one in good faith instead of merely because you'd be looking for a fight?

Now then, if you want to talk about someone who will only ever speak to a cherry picked friendly audience, that would be your man Obama ever since he launched his first Presidential campaign. Why won't Obama ever go on Fox News?

What moonbeam did you ride in Bren? I guess Barrett was a deep thinker...lmao!!! Again, liberals whine but no sustantive plan.

@Bren...Where else would you expect these two to hold a press conference? The safest place for them is at the heart of the evil empire of extreme conservatism, Waukesha County.

Wauwatosa is in Waukesha County? When did that happen?

I'd say Wauwatosa is about evenly split in terms of the left/right political demographic. Of course when you live in Shorewood and think you're in an area that represents a cross section of America's political spectrum, I suppose it's easy to confuse a real cross section for the extreme right.

Don't hold back Lyle - tell us what you really think of Waukesha County.

BTW - it's too bad that this press conference was held in the City of Wauwatosa, which is in Milwaukee County - but hey, why let technical facts like that get in the way of a good old fashion anti-conservative rant against Waukesha County, right?

Once again, the brilliance of Mr. Lyle (Barney) Ruble is on display...

Ther vill be NO questions , to be asked ... Zig Heil !

Tyler, they always thank God for victory. Scott Walker has done illegal things. In 2010 he cut salaries of public workers when he was the Milwaukee County Executive, and he fired the County Courthouse security guards. (Then he hired Wackenhut for security, a company that isn't American.)

His salary cutting was found to be illegal and the employees were refunded which cost the County $4.1 million. His firing of courthouse security was also found to be illegal, and restoration to those individuals cost more than a half million dollars. Plus the Wackenhut contract still had to paid at $91,000/month. People inside and outside of his staff warned him repeatedly that these actions were not legal but he did not listen. Plus, Walker is the first Wisconsin governor to have to hire a criminal defense team, which they are only allowed to do if they and/or staff are being investigated for criminal activity. In November 2010 he had his campaign and County Executive offices searched by investigators. An illegal router and email system were found in his offices, 25 feet from his desk.

Tyler, people make mistakes. But if multiple people tell you not to do something because it's against the rules/illegal and you do it anyway, and to do it more than once, what does that say? So you see why many people find it hard to trust or believe in Scott Walker.

@Bren .. I had my salary cut by 5% .. so that was illegal, hahaha .. Only Public sector criminals get there money .. OMC went bankrupt and NO ONE got there pensions, was that illegal ... I say F the government workers let there pensions go to zero too .. Illegal my AZZ

@Bren -

Have you ever been to the Milwaukee County Courthouse? The unionized security staff there is a complete JOKE! They all deserved to be fired and replaced for cause. Unfortunately, a liberal activist judge chose to ignore the reality of the facts of the situation and instead sided with the unions to the detriment of the taxpayers of Milwaukee County.

A for cause firing can be very subjective, thus no one could have accurately predicted how a truly unbiased and impartial judge would have viewed what Walker did before it was litigated. If what you're saying is that Walker should have realized that the judges in Milwaukee County are primarily liberal activists that legislate from the bench and that he should have known ahead of time that they would have ruled against him, well, that's not saying much for your opinion or trust in Milwaukee County judges to be impartial, is it?

The real culprits in that scandal were liberal activist Milwaukee County judges, not Walker.

Walkers the Devil .... The Devil I tell you ! If he was raised by a Baptist Pastor his father sure didn't do a very good job. Seems like all he taught him was , how to lie and cheat. Amen brother.

JImbo .. You seem not to smart .. WHO fisted the market? .. The To BIG to Jail Crooks .. there is NO free market Jimbo .. why haven't these banksters gone to Jail .. your rage is misplaced look to the powers at the top they are stealing all the wealth from the middle class thru the fraud which is the Federal reserve system and there bankster masters JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs ... and you know these banksters donate to bothe Obama and Romney .... Dr Ron Paul has introduced the Audit the Fed bill .. we will see what these crooks are up to

That right jimbo, it's everyone else's fault but your own. I certainly hope you're raising your children on this bedrock principle of our society and culture - personal responsibility be damned!

@Tyler Sweeney...I appreciate your willingness to engage in this and other threads, but you youth and inexperience is showing. I would caution you not to put too much faith in anyone person. Anyone can claim one thing and then do another. The governor has been guilty of this on many issues. So be careful young man not to be overconfident in Walker's intentions and his abilities. Remember, he is our employ and not a messiah.

@Lyle -

While the man may be fallible, his message and what he stands for isn't.

Tyler you are absolutely correct. Its to bad liberals don't understand our point of view. Don't let these liberals bother you. Stand strong for what you believe is correct. You should get into politics i see you comment on many things and always seem to get your point across. Are country needs more people like you. Thank you for getting involved as a young adult.

@JRH...You're doubling back on yourself. For someone who advocates going his own way, I never saw you as being a Walker lackey. Also, I stand corrected about the location of the press conference. However, it doesn't change the fact that Walker and Ryan stay away from downtown Milwaukee, the center of the evil empire of socialism.

@Lyle -

I very well couldn't hold every office simultaneously myself, could I?

I thought the evil empire of socialism is Madison. Oh, but that would kinda screw with Lyle's theory, that's OK he's batting 0% on this thread anyway.

Socialist house of horrors that Madison, ranking near the top of just every biz magazine when it comes to cities to do business in.

@Tyler Sweeney ... Do you pray to Walker every night ? If you don't you should.

"Choice words," hey? Wow, what a big man you must be!

Your a 1%'er .. so your another jackhole like Buffet, oh buffet is a 0.1%er... why don't you just donate your money out of the goodness of your heart .. why do you feel the need to FORCE people to donate .. oh thats right because you wouldn't do it unless everyone does .. your a real piece of work

Little do you know you're not a 1%-er.

1%er in Oak Creek. Ise gots a tew car geerage...

It would be nice if conservatives would propose something that worked, but tax cuts and regulation cuts are not designed to do anything -- except make a select group of people richer.

I propose, cut spending.

Now go have your mommy change your diaper !

@Tyler Sweeney...You need to broaden your reading and studies and not just focus on the extremist political right. If you are going to access charges against the political left, you need to be well versed enough to rationally argue from both sides. Be careful of the phenomenon of selective perceptions and only seeing what you want to see.

Tyler .. be carefull with explosive words like extremist right .. WTF does that mean Lyle, would you call George Washington, Thomas Jefferson etc, extremists ... Tyler what we have is limited government vs BIG government .. and this BS left/right paradyne, which keeps everyone busy while BOTH sides grow government .. The original tea party was for limited government now you got establishment BIG government Tommy Thompson speaking at a tea party rally .. the Tea party has been co-opted by the powers that be .. they will not let the liberty message out, you want real news don't listen to the PRAVDA main stream media .. the internet is free speech ... 90% of the media is owned by 6 corporations so you are getting what they want you to hear .... my 2cents

@Johnny Blade...How did you get Washington, Jefferson, et al. out of what I wrote? Your lack of knowledge and mastery of history is phenomenally lacking. You're writings put you on the extreme edge of reactionary politics. Shove you a little more to the right and you would be an anarchist. I am not so sure you're not already there.

The original tea party wasn't solely for limited government but to protest a lack of representation and the monopoly that the British had on trade. They wanted the colonists limited to trading only with British firms, thus keeping the colonies as closed markets. This precisely is why the rebellion began in New England because they were the ones first affected by Britain's trade policies. The idea that we would have no choice in paying for the Seven Years War (French and Indian War) was particularly disturbing, especially in light of the British colonists direct participation in the conflict. Therefore, the New England colonists routinely participated in illegal trade, considered smuggling, by the British; to create the wealth they were seeking. The revolution in the Northern Colonies was as much about smuggling and wealth as it was about a tyrannical distant government. The revolution wouldn't have happened if the British would have counted the colonials as full British citizens and allowed representation in the British Parliament. One thing that separates you and the extreme right wing from the founders is their intelligence and education.

So it wasn't about the central bank of england? .. it wasn't about religous freedom?, it wasn't about taxation? .. I don't know what BS revisoinist history you have been reading Lyle .. but i am not an anarchist but like the John Birch society i believe in limited government .. I am a Libertarian .. I am for freedom and Liberty .. I am RON PAUL

Just remember one thing Sweeney ... Just just a little Weenie !

Good moral values ... ? i think I just pee d in my pants . Walker has no moral values.

@ Mr. Thinker -

You may want to try Depends undergarments for such a problem.

@Greg...How couldn't he have messed up? I don't think anyone knew for sure how big the financial bubble was and how deep the economic downturn would be. 2008 turned out to be another 1929 and just think how bad it would have been if we didn't have safety valves in place to prevent a full collapse. Even with all Obama's short comings concerning implementing effective fiscal policy, he still deserves some credit for keeping us from completely going over the edge of the cliff. Honestly, has he messed up; yes. Has he been a total failure; no.

On the deficit, he is a total failure. He is 125% in the wrong direction. He did not cut the deficit in half. He did not maintain the deficit. He over doubled it. Total failure. We actually may be over the edge of the cliff.

Lyle- Obama deserves more credit for the fiscal disaster than you are willing to admit. He continued every single one of Bush's policicies that you blame for the disaster, and exceeded them. His genius idea to reduce the employee contribution to SS when SS is in need of revenue is a high school mistake. You don't need a degree to figure that out.

And while revenues continue to decline because of his inability to even assemble a budget supported by at least one of his Democratic allies, spending continues at a record pace. Pretty sure a 5th grader could figure out that math.

And still, even after imposing the largest middle-class tax increase in our county's existence, it still will wind up hurting the economy and the very health care system it is suppose to help. We would have been cheaper off buying health insurance for those unable to attain it, then this boondoggle that even the Democrats can't figure out how much it will cost.

The bottom line Mr. Ruble, is your guy's financial plan is a complete an utter failure. He couldn't budget his own household the way he is governing the country without facine personal bankruptcy.

So if you voted for him in 2008 to prove you are not racist. vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you are not an idiot. After 3 and a half years, he owns it; and we know it.

@Brian Dey...Do I claim that cutting SS contribution was the smart thing to do or to extend the Bush Tax Cuts; absolutely not. However, pumping in money through stimulus was the right thing to do. Now as far as voting for Romney in November, I think not; I may be dumb but I'm not that stupid.

Lyle- A, the stimulus, as you have stated in many posts, was Bush policy. And as for it working? I believe the promise from the Obama administration was that it would lower unemployment below 8%. That was his benchmark, and from that stand point, a big failure.

Wisconsin should be a model for the federal government. I am disappointed with my party as well for not taking on the big challenges head on, like our own Governor Walker (elected twice in the same term).

See, someone like you and your party can blame all you want, but Obama for his first two years had free reign to fix things, and they chose to do nothing but raise taxes (the biggest in history) on the middle class, while supporting the Bush tax cuts. If the Bush tax cuts were soooooo bad, Lyle, then why are the Dems afraid to end them. Answer: Because they know it would create another Greece.

So vote for this clown again. You will be in the minority again and you will lose. For all our sakes, we can't afford another four years of someone that has no clue on any issue.

The fiscal disaster can be put squarely on the shoulders of the Private banking Cartel the Federal Reserve ... Lyle, he has made the cliff even higher so the fall will be even more dramatic ... How come he doesn't bring back Glass Stegal? .. because he is OWNED by the Banking Cartel .. so you can't even get present day reality right how the frick can you get history right

Nope.

I see that the so-called independent thought doesn't run very deep, does it?

Same old Bucky. You can change the name , but the IQ stays the same.

He's still PO'd because I banged his mom.

@Bucky -

Why do you keep on changing your Patch identity?

I don't make the comments to other people, just you. I'm not trying to be nice.

@Bucky -

I honestly don't care what your name is, but a little consistency with your name would be nice!

@Bucky -

I'm fine - thanks for asking. Likewise, I hope things are going well for you. But please, give us all a break and drop the hateful personal attacks and vitriol from your posts - they serve no purpose here.

@morninmist -

Just because Obama was caught in a HUGE lie and you have no way of intelligently defending him on it, you've degraded to making unsubstantiated personal attacks against Ryan and his family!?!?

The lowest form of political mudslinging. That's one thing that I've never seen Ryan do to any of his opponents. Ryan has class, whereas you and your kind do not.

Have a nice day!

Mr. Hoffa, where does the "unsubstantiated" part of this come in? If Paul Ryan were a Democrat, how would you react to this information?

@Bren -

The exact same way - with analysis of the primary sources and logic!

First off, the lefty-liberal blog claims that Ryan's 2013 budget "gives $43 billion in tax breaks to the companies" that Ryan is supposedly invested in. However, I can't find a single provision in the 2013 Ryan Budget that the House passed that expressly pertains to oil and gas company tax breaks. Nor can I find any liberal blog that expressly cites the section of the budget bill that purportedly gives such a tax break. Here's the document - please cite me to the section that gives oil and gas companies tax breaks, as I can't find it anywhere, and believe me, I looked extensively:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hconres112pcs/pdf/BILLS-112hconres112pcs.pdf

Perhaps, what the liberals are upset about is that Ryan's budget doesn't address the tax code, and eliminates the oil and gas company tax breaks in it. But that's not how the liberal blogs and websites present the information, is it? Additionally, Ryan wasn't even a federally elected official when those tax breaks became a part of the tax code - thus, how could he exhibit any conflict of interest for not getting rid of them in his budget? Tax reform and budgeting are two very different issues, aren't they?

But true to liberal ideology and tactics - slant, distort, and hide the truth of the matter behind spin instead of giving it to the public straight - brilliant!

Second, a comparison of the SEI's doesn't show an increase of Ryan's personal investment in such ventures, as erroneously asserted by the lefty-liberal blog, but rather that the value of Ryan's initial investment in such ventures has increased over time.

Third, Ryan is not "currently making millions" off these investments, as again erroneously asserted by the lefty-liberal blog, as adding up the profit numbers from the blog itself show a total profit of between $40k-$150k generated by such investments - hardly millions!

Fourth, seeing as how Ryan's budget wasn't enacted into law, he hasn't gotten away with anything yet.

Fifth, as I stated earlier, the Ryan budget doesn't expressly address the tax code. Also, the referenced tax breaks would affect more than just the companies he's personally invested in. Also, the lefty-liberal blog makes no mention of the prior tax treatment of those specific companies and how much of the tax break they qualified for, instead focusing on billionaire boogymen and using terms such as 'robber barons.'

Sixth, according to the tax code, the reason cited for the tax breaks is to help keep the cost of gas and oil low for the consumers in this country. Or would the constituency be happy with $15/gal gasoline and $2/cu/ft natural gas rates?

Conclusion - this article is nothing but a partisan hack piece hit-job and morninmist and his ilk should be embarrassed for perpetuating it as gospel. Nothing but libelous spin meant to advance a partisan agenda!

SHAME on you morninmist and Bren for trying to peddle your deceptive partisan lies on us and drag Ryan and his family's name unjustifiably through the mud as opposed to challenging him on the merits of his ACTUAL budget proposal!

Hoffa
The shame is on YOU for standing by Ryan!!

@morninmist -

I just proved how you and Bren were duped by a lefty-liberal blog and that's the best you can do?

But if you still assert the blog entry as being gospel, then please provide us with the direct cite to the section number of Ryan's proposed budget that gives away billions to oil and gas companies.

For once in your life, demonstrate the validity of the crap that you post or admit that it was wrong! Oh wait, I forgot - you're a liberal! Taking personal responsibility and admitting when you're wrong is just not in your demeanor ;-)

Hoffa
Even you know that Ryan has upheld tax subsidies for oil companies. Twice this year in fact. First he votes for the tax breaks, then he says he will not support corporate welfare. He is a hypocrite!! His mouth says one thing and he votes the other way!! And I am glad he has a good Dem challenger this time.

For those interested here is a petition of interest:

https://secure3.convio.net/lcv/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=675&JServSessionIdr004=o3dzdm2q45.app332a

And another web site of interest:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/05/big_oil_tax_breaks.html

Morninmist:

Can you elaborate on what the oil company tax subsidies were for? What did the company have to do to 'earn' the subsidy?

@Cow..
Ask a TeaRepub.

Mornin:

I prefer to ask you since you are the one that is being critical of them. Are they the same tax breaks enjoyed by other companies as well or are they specific to big oil companies?

Cow Dung

Oil companies -with there record profits do not need taxpayer subsidies--that is a given. Do they need them?--especially when we can put these tax dollars to better use with green energy.

@morninmist -

The Americanprogress.com article that you linked to is riddled with fallacies of logic.

Seeing as how you refuse to defend or admit to the falsity of the bs that you post when I expose it as being such, I'm not going to waste my time doing another line-by-line debunking of this article.

Another thing that you liberals do which is highly misleading is the way in which you use the terms 'tax breaks' and 'subsidies' interchangeably. There is in fact a HUGE difference. A 'tax break' represents money that is yours that the government decides not to take from you, for whatever reason, that it otherwise would have. A 'subsidy,' on the other hand, is when the government cuts a check to private interests, such as farm subsidies and Solyndra.

From everything that I've been able to find, while oil companies do receive special tax treatment (I'm not even sure that I'd call them breaks), they do not receive any subsidies. Please use the terminology correctly in the future, unless of course your intent is to mislead people, which as a liberal, it probably is, so never mind, carry on as usual!

And no, I don't know that Ryan voted in favor of what you have called 'corporate welfare.' Could you please provide me with the bill numbers that he voted in favor of?

Mornin:

Who are you to determine who 'needs' anything? Earning 'record profits' usually involves spending at record levels as well. Every time I get a raise at work, my income rises to 'record' levels. Does that mean that I no longer 'need' to take my the tax deductions I am entitled to?

Mr. Hoffa, you haven't proven anything about people being duped by a "lefty blog." What you did do is link to a summative budget document rather than the Path (to Someone Else's) Prosperity link provided in that "lefty blog." Was your research incomplete? Were you afraid of breaking a nail following the click-throughs? Or did you purposely submit summary material as evidence? The jury's still out on that one... ; ) Anyway, here's the link to the P2P document for anyone interested: http://budget.house.gov/prosperity/fy2013.htm

The tone of understated hysteria exuding from the authoritarian narration of this fishwrap reminds me of the hollow ramblings of Ayn Rand, America's favorite adulterer and passport bride (the moral compass of WI Congressional District #1). Stick to the slimy walls to avoid falling into the muck as you sludge your way through. Bring your machete and your vertigo medication as you will have to hack your way through unprecedented amounts of Tea/GOP spin. The "budget" is very short on detail. But there is some interesting information therein, nonetheless (albeit packed in animal waste products).

Some folks can ignore Paul Ryan's hypocrisy. I can't. So I'm very glad I don't live in his district.

@Bren -

The article references "Ryan's Budget." I linked to the budget bill that was authored by Ryan and voted on by the House.

The Path to Prosperity isn't a bill, it's a summative blueprint. But if you insist on using the blueprint, then again, I ask for the page number on which the blueprint expressly calls that tax breaks in the amount of $43B be given exclusively to petroleum and natural gas companies, as the lefty liberal blog claims - as I've read the entire 99 page document and I can't find any mention of this anywhere.

So, where exactly are these "$43 Billion in tax breaks" that "Ryan's budget gives … to the companies and processes the Little family (and Ryan) profit from," coming from?

Without a specific cite to something of substance, this appears to be nothing more than a made up conspiracy theory. You and morninmist are the one's who are claiming the accuracy of the article. If you did your homework before coming to such a conclusion, then it should be easy for you to cite me to a PRIMARY SOURCE and give either the page of the Path or the section number of the legislative budget bill that contains these oil company tax breaks that Ryan allegedly supports.

I'm waiting…. the direct cite please!

@Nick -

For a self declared intellectual, you're one of the biggest conspiracy theorists on Patch!

The people of Greece invested heavily in its public sector - where has that gotten them today?

So Nick the Pseudo Intellectual is a communist, nice

Bingo!

Jeff Simpson ‏@JeffSimpson7

@reppaulryan http://cognidissidence.blogspot.com/2012/07/paul-ryan-knows-nothing.html?cid=dlvr.it Paul Ryan really is an expert on nothing - and shows it often! @gop @reince @wisdems #wiunion #wiright #p2

Paul Ryan and Scott Walkers are moochers, not producers. Neither has worked a day in the private sector in their lives, unless you count the couple of years Walker spent with the American Red Cross after he got bounced from Marquette.

@morninmist -

Thanks for proving once again that all Zerban is good at is trashing Ryan with falsehoods instead of offering up solutions of his own! Add to that, his smack talk is little more than the same old spun talking points, propaganda, and rhetoric that we've heard a million times already. In other words, Zerban is a lot like you misty!

Zerban brings nothing new or original to the table. He's little more than a party line partisan hack. Ryan is at least a leader within his party. He's constantly throwing out new ideas and offering up solutions on paper.

I'd say that the choice is pretty clear, wouldn't you?

Zerban - an empty party puppet.

Ryan - a leader full of ideas.

Yep - no comparison!

TeaRepublicans and Ryan are fighting a losing battle.

The Atlantic ‏@TheAtlantic

Poll: Obamacare is no longer unpopular with the majority of America http://theatln.tc/PP3Nwy

@morninmist -

If it's such a losing battle, then why are Democrats crossing the partisan aisle and voting with Republicans to repeal?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/politically-vulnerable-democrats-plan-back-obamacare-repeal-191746511.html

I seem to remember several posts that were like "TeaRepublicans and Walker are fighting a losing battle." How'd that werk?

So, Brian, I see you are still spreading your big LIES (besides name-calling posters).
As I said before I am not an artist, nor a former teacher.

You are NOT trustworthy when you spread lies.

.......
Brian Dey

2:07 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012

Bren- It is official; you ARE just as loony as mornin(hippy artist, former teacher)mist. Thanks for the confirmation.

"You are NOT trustworthy when you spread lies." Does this just apply to Brian? I guess everything that morninmist spreads is just simple misrepresentations.

@Greg
For your brain to know and comprehend. I was referring to Brain's post.

.............

Greg

2:33 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012

"You are NOT trustworthy when you spread lies." Does this just apply to Brian? I guess everything that morninmist spreads is just simple misrepresentations.

I don't know, morninmist, according to your blog, that's the info I got from it. Former art teacher in RUSD. Just Sayin'. If I'm mistaken, I apologize, but the gist of the post was that you and Bren are loony. That is a fact!

@morninmist & @Bren -

Please cite us to either the page of Ryan's Path to Prosperity or the direct section number of Ryan's budget bill, H.Con.Res. 112, that expressly gives oil companies $43B in tax breaks, as asserted by the lefty-liberal blog that you linked to above.

Again, here are the links to both PRIMARY documents:

http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hconres112pcs/pdf/BILLS-112hconres112pcs.pdf

In fact, I could not find such a reference in either document. So please assist by providing the direct cite or please admit that you and the lefty liberal blog were wrong and are intentionally trying to deceive people.

Why do liberals intentionally target the low information, non-thinking voter? How very immoral and unethical of liberals!

SHAME ON YOU!

Brian, I take your insult as the compliment to my intellect that it is. Thank you. Never change! ; )

@Bren & @morninmist -

Still waiting for that citation...

You know, when Hoffa is wrong about an objective fact, he admits it and stands corrected. Just search my Patch history and you'll see this to be the case. However, I've never seen a lefty / liberal admit when they're wrong about an objective fact on the Patch. Isn't that funny…

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own facts - the facts are the facts!

So again, please provide either the citation OR an admission of error.

Thanks!

Not so fast Mr. Hoffa, let's stay focused on your earlier piece of evidence above (summative document). Since you yourself, the shining ideal of logic and cognition that you are, would never stoop to the ploy of trying to dazzle certain minds with your ability to link to a government document (no matter how content-free it is), I can only conclude that your research skills are under-exercised? I challenge you to actually, with bona fide links, verify/disprove the assertions. Here's that link morninmist provided again. This time, open it, and I'll give you a hint. The 2011 SEI is a good starting point.

The only reason you wouldn't look into this is because you know you won't like what you find. ; )

You either Bren, the humor is sooo worth it;)

@Bren -

Again, the blog entry stated that "Ryan's Budget," and not his SEI's, gives the oil companies $43B in tax breaks. These aren't my assertions. I'm just looking for the primary source of this information. Where is it? How come you won't just come out and give us the direct cite instead of playing games? Why doesn't the blog cite to the primary source?

What do Ryan's SEI's have to do with the budget? Why are you trying to shift the subject?

Before you said that it would be in the Path to Prosperity - all I'm asking for is the page number, as I've read the whole 99 page document and I can't find the part where it gives oil companies $43B in tax breaks. In fact, I can't find wherein it references oil companies at all, yet alone giving them tax breaks.

Again, I linked to the official budget bill, authored by Ryan, that was voted on by the entire house. Why do you keep on calling it a summative document? If I'm wrong, then please provide us with the proper bill number and direct cite to the section showing the tax breaks for oil companies.

Last chance before your credibility goes in the toilet on this one Bren - what's it going to be?

; )

Brian

I DO NOT HAVE A BLOG!

Brian Dey

2:53 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012

I don't know, morninmist, according to your blog, that's the info I got from it. Former art teacher in RUSD. Just Sayin'. If I'm mistaken, I apologize, but the gist of the post was that you and Bren are loony. That is a fact!

@Bren & @morninmist -

Last chance to either provide the cite or admit that you and the lefty-liberal blog were WRONG and were only trying to intentionally deceive people. Failure to provide a response will result in you losing your credibility on these boards!

Mr. Hoffa, the P2P document is a wealth of direct accusations and vague suggestions of solutions, isn't it. Why don't you contact Badger Democracy, discuss with them, and report back?

@Bren -

Why don't you contact Badger Democracy - you and misty were the ones asserting the truth of what Badger Democracy blogged - not Hoffa! Why do we need to talk to Badger Democracy at all when we have access to the PRIMARY sources of information that are being referenced by Badger Democracy? Or can't you read and analyze the primary sources yourself - you need Badger Democracy to do it for you?

This is fairly easy Bren - read the Path, read the budget bill. They are the PRIMARY SOURCES. Then tell us the direct citation to oil company tax breaks contained in both or either. If you can't find any (which you won't, because they don't exist), then man up and come back here and admit that you were WRONG and that Hoffa was RIGHT and that the lefty liberal blog is in fact trying to intentionally deceive people, you being one of the people that was duped by it.

If the tax breaks aren't a part of Ryan's budget as asserted, then what does it matter if Ryan and/or his family is invested in big oil or not? How can there be a conflict of interest?

Come on Bren - just admit that you were wrong. I've always had respect for you, but if you can't admit it when you're clearly wrong, you'll lose a lot of Hoffa's respect!