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Should Liberals Reconsider Their Ideology?

The following is an excerpt from a speech ...  "RACE, CULTURE, AND EQUALITY - by Thomas Sowell"

It would do us well to consider the insight and clear thinking provided by Thomas Sowell as we intend to reconcile issues in our society.

"History does not offer blueprints for the present but it does offer examples and insights.  If nothing else, it can warn us against becoming mesmerized by the heady visions and soaring rhetoric of the moment.

One of the most seductive visions of our time is the vision of "fairness" in a sense that the word never had before.  At one time we all understood what was meant by a "fair fight." It meant that both fighters fought by the same Marquis of Queensbury rules.  It did not mean that both fighters had equal strength, skill, experience or other factors that would make them equally likely to win.

In today's conception of fairness, only when all have the same prospects of winning is the fight fair.  It was not in The Nation or some other left-wing magazine, but in the neoconservative quarterly The Public Interest that we find opportunity equated with "the same chance to succeed" or "an equal shot at a good outcome"-- regardless of the influence of social, cultural, or family background.

This confusion between the fairness of rules and the equality of prospects is spreading across the political spectrum.  Regardless of which of these two things might be considered preferable, we must first be very clear in our own minds that they are completely different, and often mutually incompatible, if we are to have any hope of a rational discussion of policy issues ranging from anti-trust to affirmative action.

To add to the confusion, when prospects are not the same for all, this is then blamed on "the system" or "the rules of the game," as Brookings Senior Fellow Isabel V. Sawhill does in the Spring issue of The Public Interest.  Rules and standards are the creation of particular human beings but circumstances need not be.  Ms. Sawhill herself includes "good genes" among the circumstances which affect economic inequalities, and we might add all sorts of other geographic, demographic, cultural and historical factors that were not created by today's "rules of the game" or by "the system" or by anyone currently on the scene.

It makes sense to blame human beings for biased rules and standards.  But who is to be blamed for circumstances that are the results of a confluence of all sorts of conditions of the past and present, interacting in ways that are hard to specify and virtually impossible to disentangle?  Unless we wish to start a class action suit against geography or against the cosmos or the Almighty, we need to stop the pretense that somebody is guilty whenever the world does not present a tableau that suits our desires or fits our theories.

This new kind of "fairness" has never existed anywhere at any time.  The real world has always been astronomically remote from any such condition.  Nor are the costs and risks of trying to achieve this cosmic fairness small.

Crime rates soared when our courts began to concern themselves with such things as the unhappy childhoods of violent criminals or the "root causes" of crime in general. Those who paid the highest price for these excursions into cosmic justice were not the judges or the theorists whose notions the judges reflected, but the victims of rape, murder and terrorization by hoodlums."

The entire transcript of the speech can be found here.

Bottom Line

3:01 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

I enjoy the wisdom of Thomas Sowell. While most know him as a master of Economics, we find that he has a very good understanding of society and culture.

I hope you review the entire speech. He reviews the success and failure of societies through many ages. Unlike most liberals, he shows that success can be achieved without the social engineering that some claim is necessary ... further, he diminishes the value of a "level playing field".

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Lyle Ruble

10:14 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

@Bottom Line....Dr. Sowell is an amazing man and an accomplished intellect. He's proof positive that the exceptional individuals will be able to overcome obstacles that frustrate lesser beings. He represents a long tradition of conservative and libertarian intellectuals, which these days are too few and far between. However, he counts his exceptionalism as a common trait held by all, which is clearly not the case. It is few that are able to counter Dr. Sowell's well written and spoken work, but I differ in my basic suppositions and the role that culture and society plays in the behavior and growth of individuals. An over reliance by lesser intellects on Dr. Sowell is a mistake made by those that unable to think critically. His writings on libertarianism is particularly thought provoking and there is much I agree with such as his decriminalization of drugs.

I don't know if asking people to read someone else's work really constitutes a blog piece.

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Bottom Line

1:20 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Dr. Sowell has, in this speech, reviewed through the ages how various groups of people have overcome weakness to achieve success, and change the future for their culture. There are many models to choose from, but in each case he cites, those that did succeed did so by realizing and following other models that worked for other successful groups.

None of his proofs included "leveling the playing field". None of the successes included taking earnings from others to pacify those in need. In fact, just the opposite is true. It was an honest acknowledgement of the reasons they weren't succeeding, and a determination to arrest that condition by accepting the effort required for that change to occur.

Furthermore, the disadvantaged came from some very depressed people through the ages.

The fact that I cite a scholar, like Dr. Sowell, to start a discussion that refutes liberal ideologies is something you might dismiss as unworthy here. I believe the opposite is true. It is precisely what is needed, because I care about the plight of the disadvantaged, and I am tired of liberals preventing them from achieving the successes that people throughout the ages have attained when they were lead by those who were not confused about the realities history has proven ... again, and again.

BTW, I too lament we have laws regarding the legality of certain substances. As soon as we agree to hold people responsible for their choices, I will demand legislation that makes it so.

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SkinnyDude

4:14 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

@ Lyle
He doesnt count on exceptionalism as much as the notion of this cosmic fairness liberals subscribe to only creates even more unequal outcomes. The fact that alot of valuable resources have been thrown down a REAL RAT HOLE of liberal thinking only leads to the deepening fiscal woes that can hurt ALL outcomes in a adverse way. Drive and effort and intelligence should be rewarded as it basically is not possible if the masses do not subscribe to those efforts. Thomas Sowell makes sense in the Real world as he knows the facts and the damage that make believe FAIRNESS does. When the war on poverty started ...Poverty was already on the decline . Now the Government pays people to stay there. Amazing!

Mr Lundt

3:10 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

"Should Liberals Reconsider Their Ideology? "

Why should they---they are spending other peoples money--they don't care. Its about their power not about whats best.

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Richard Head

7:40 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

That is so true.

What government was supposed to be was small and fiscally conservative, providing basic and vital services and maintaining a LEVEL playing field. Then came all sorts of additional rules that gave one group an advantage over another, various wealth transfer schemes, and government being allowed to take over functions and services that were previously in the realm of the private sector.

Liberals love their wealth transfer schemes!

The City of Racine Hustle.

http://racineexposed.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/the-hustle-do-it-racine/

Urban Pioneer

3:57 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

The opening line strikes so true today!
"History does not offer blueprints for the present but it does offer examples and insights. If nothing else, it can warn us against becoming mesmerized by the heady visions and soaring rhetoric of the moment."

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Aurelius

4:04 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Written from a white male perspective.

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Bottom Line

4:11 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Aurelius ... I hope you review the speech. Thomas Sowell is a black male, btw. He grew up in Harlem, and despite the rhetoric of misinformed liberals he succeeded as a result of his effort.

He has written many books and articles that would help those trying to learn how to achieve success in a trying world.

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Aurelius

4:15 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

I'm very familiar with his work. I just don't share his ideology.

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Mr Lundt

4:17 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Aurelius
You are far better off not demeaning yourself by simply abdicating your life to self -imposed victimhood. Your choice…

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Aurelius

4:22 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

If you are going to write on fairness, there must be acknowledgment of inequalities in our country. This not about race only, but the haves and have nots.

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Bottom Line

4:25 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

I can tell you haven't read the speech, if you had you wouldn't overlook the fact that your concerns are addressed in the speech.

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Avenging Angel

4:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

And how did the "haves" get what they have? You think it was handed to them or do you think they worked for it?

Assuming you are black, why don't you acknowledge that the liberal philosophy is the modern day slavery of black folk?

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CowDung

4:30 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Not to mention that 'Written from a white male perspective' comment...

It doesn't seem that you are as familiar with his work as you claim, Aurelius.

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Brian Dey

4:39 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

The only inequality in this country are those that choose to be victims. That is the spot on problem with liberals. The only one standing in the way of you and success is you.

Aurelius

4:25 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

No one is claiming "victim hood"--just better access for all people

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The Anti-Alinsky

4:41 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Exactly what access, and to whom is it being denied?

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Mr Lundt

5:20 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Thanks for proving my point.

Self imposed Victim- hood is so ingrained in you you can't even separate yourself from it.

Aurelius

4:46 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

I did read the article and I disagree with the premise. Have you seen the infant mortality rate in those countries compared to the US? Whatever the commonalities that Dr. Sowell sees in his research I don't see it. Numbers, in this case statistics, don't lie--there is disparity in this country

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Aurelius

4:49 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Avenging Angel--through the blood of others!

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The Anti-Alinsky

10:24 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Exactly whose blood? You keep throwing out rhetoric with no original thought or facts to back it up. You just keep parroting Liberal talking points trying to stir emotion.

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Avenging Angel

11:24 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

This is a laughable statement. I am a "have". I grew up in one of the worst neighborhoods in the country. My parents didn't have a dime, but worked hard in factory jobs. I studied equally hard and took an interest in the sciences. As a young man, I worked 3 jobs and put myself through flight school. I spent the next 30 years working myself up through the ranks.

So just exactly with whose blood did I become successful?

Aurelius

4:51 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

CowDung--I stand by my comment.

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CowDung

9:19 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Then please explain how a Black guy can be writing from a White guy's perspective.

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Hershal Webster

9:53 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Well, to start with the black guy would have to have a job.

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Bottom Line

1:25 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Hershal, could you expand your thought. I'm not sure what you are getting at with your response.

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Hershal Webster

11:46 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

BL,
I am someone that does not play into the concepts of things like "Written from a white male perspective". I would like to think that a perspective is valid regardless of the gender or race of the source. I was just playing into the Uncle Tom implications of Aurelius' comment.

Aurelius

4:53 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Brian Dey--a myopic approach will not solve anything.

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Brian Dey

7:47 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

What was myopic? It's the honest truth but liberals can't accept it because it would destroy their agenda. They need victims.

Aurelius

4:57 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

The Anti-linsky--"access death"--a real and reported statistic across all demographics, more so among ethnic minorities.

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The Anti-Alinsky

6:07 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Yes Aurelis, mortality rates are higher among minorities, but the question is why? We have Medicaid, BadgerCare, and now B.O.Care. For health issues there is no reason someone can't access a doctor or hospital. So what is different?

The answer, is the cultural attitude. Minorities disproportionally live in inner cities where violent crime is higher. And many blocks look like a garbage dump. When there is garbage all over the streets, it is that much harder to keep the rats, vermin and other disease carrying rodents away. And don't even get started on the co-sleeping deaths. What is up with that?

Like education, the opportunities are there, but people have to take advantage of them to better themselves, not just survive.

Aurelius

6:19 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Luke--I'm not sure I understand your comment. I'm referring to actual deaths that are higher across demographics in the US. Are you referring to the possible etiology?

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mike paczesny

7:03 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

2 sides of the same coin, what you all see is a system that is bending about to break. trillions in fake debt, out of control war spending, for profit prisons and drug prohibition usually gets the snowball affect rolling....damn those trendy liberals and ultra conservatives! they both fail to see they are supporting fascism, plutocracy . until we reach the point that can be addressed these arguments will continue.

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Bottom Line

1:30 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Or, we could acknowledge the truths that history provides, and apply them.

Nuitari

7:44 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Liberals are the by-product of earthworms grazing.

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Steve ®

10:03 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Liberals are the dodo birds of today's human race. They are wasting the remaining producer's income so rapidly we will collapse collectively. And on the way down Obama will continue to blame republicans.

We have the most partisan president in history hell bent on destroying one political party as he destroys a country.

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Bren

10:32 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

Thomas Sowell got into Howard U on the GI Bill and good test scores. Before the Korean conflict Sowell dropped out of high school. How fortunate he was that he was able to enter college in an untraditional way. Here's a link to an interesting 1990 interview in which he discourses on how minority students need colleges that best suit their existing skill set. It's surprising that, while acknowledging that public schools often fail low income students, that there is no call to improve the quality of education in the formative years so that SAT scores can improve. That's when the rules of fair play kick in. Two kids, born with roughly the same intellectual potential. One has parents who read to their child, pay for art and music lessons, an excellent school, and numerous opportunities to participate in extracurricular field trips, social activities, and other enriching activities that lead to a well rounded education and social life. The other may have a parent who works multiple jobs and hasn't time to read with their child, or there might be a literary deficit. There is no money for lessons or experiences outside of what their budget-slashed school and church can provide. The family does not travel far beyond the boundaries of school and church because of crime and lack of money. Who, even though brain capacity is similar, is going to get a better test score?

Final thought: Sowell is a social theorist, but doesn't a reasonable theory require objective analysis?

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Bottom Line

1:42 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Bren ... "there is no call to improve the quality of education in the formative years" ... where have you been? You aren't unaware the efforts to improve education ... are you? Or, are you ready to join those of us that readily acknowledge that the liberal approach to "throw money" (and we've thrown plenty) at a problem is hardly the answer?

Dr. Sowell, if you read the speech, isn't offering theory. He provides proof by reviewing what has worked for various cultures through the ages. It requires the disadvantaged accept the challenge to apply the effort and responsibility others that have succeeded applied. His objective analysis cannot be dismissed, it is proven history.

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Keith Worst

6:09 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Bren is so right. You can tell that Bren has put a lot of thought into this. Think about all those Asian kids that are flooding our institutions of higher education. They came home every day after school and their parents made them study. They had no advantages but those parents. Seems to me that we either need to pass laws that prohibit those parents from making their children study, or we need to require the government have the Asians raise us whites and blacks. After all, how can we say that the American dream is within reach if we don't have immigrant parents? Our brain capacity is no different, so let' lower the bar.

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Keith Worst

6:31 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Oh wait, I didn't notice the part a out what Bren said about field trips. Yes, we should be allowed to go on free field trips if we can avoid studying. But it wouldn't be fair if the kids that are getting high scores because they study at home get to come on those trips, because they are cheating by studying.

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Johnny Blade

10:56 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Like the RUSH song eh Bren .. keep them equal by hatchet, Axe and saw

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The Anti-Alinsky

11:19 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Bren wrote: "The other may have a parent who works multiple jobs and hasn't time to read with their child, or there might be a literary deficit."

MAY Bren? MAY? How many cases in MPS or Racine fall under this MAY category?

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Keith Worst

5:29 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013

@Anti

Don't you get it? If people cheat by studying, then how are the rest of us going to keep up unless we also study? We need field trips and music lessons. After all most of us don't have time to memorize the capitals of all 47 states. Think of all the time we would save if we flew to each one, instead!

Bottom Line

3:36 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Lyle ... "However, he counts his exceptionalism as a common trait held by all, which is clearly not the case."

No, he does not. He suggests that if you ignore history, in this regard, you are overlooking what other cultures engaged to overcome their disadvantage.

Aurelius ... "Written from a white male perspective."

Obviously false.

Aurelius ... "If you are going to write on fairness"

As Dr. Sowell articulated, "fairness" is not part of the equation if you want to correct your condition in life. You cannot recover if you subscribe to an excuse that ensures your plight will be less than beneficial.

Aurelius ... "just better access for all people"

We all have access in this country, many choose to ignore that access.

Aurelius ... "Have you seen the infant mortality rate in those countries compared to the US?"

... what does this have to do with this post? Further ... as others suggest, many are not engaging what we provide as a Nation, as a result, they are left with lamentable results.

Hershal Webster ... "Well, to start with the black guy would have to have a job."

... what prevents that?

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Bottom Line

3:37 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Bren ... "while acknowledging that public schools often fail low income students, that there is no call to improve the quality of education in the formative years"

... absolutely false. You ignore the effort that has provided opportunity you and others ignore.

.... and ... "There is no money for lessons or experiences outside of what their budget-slashed school and church can provide."

... again, (though you claim to be a reasoned independent) absolutely false. Taxpayers continue to spend a great deal of money, hoping to assist the opportunities for the disadvantaged. Further, they extend education and social programs that mask the true issues, and then enable those refusing to avail those opportunities by suggesting failure is the fault of those that DID try to resolve the issues.

.... and "doesn't a reasonable theory require objective analysis?"

...Dr Sowell has provided objective History ... ignore it, but it is the truth.

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Try Try Again

5:10 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Regardless of which label endorsed by Mr. Sowell for tagging liberals, progressives, socialists et al locals prefer, there's no mistaking the lack of tolerance his speech has encouraged. Lack of tolerance is not admired in advancing societies, let alone promoted. BTW, there's a range of social and economic philosophies which branch out into a variety of political factions. By lumping all the already-mentioned labels into one and then claiming using each label is proof of deceit by a single philosophy (or ideology) is famously putting up a straw man to knock down. That would be the same as alleging that Tea Party and Republican are one in the same, and calling ea Party backers Republicans is another such attempt.

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Mr Lundt

9:01 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

TTA
Really. Juan Williams would love to talk to you about tolerance. THe left has NO tolerance for opposing views, and many act like spoiled children when they don't get their way (see the blue fists in Madison and the democrats that ran out Illinois)

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Dan B

9:54 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

The left wants reliance on Government and the Right wants self reliance. The left retains its power by keeping the victim and entitlement mentality alive.

Poverty is a choice, you choose to sit on the couch and not go get a job.
you choose to not educate yourself at any age of your life. You choose to listen to the liberals that tell you it is an honorable way of life to have generations of your family living off of the tax payers money. It's owed to you. Why is it that if you are on welfare you can't clean your house or keep your yard clean? Is it because you have had it given to you and you didn't earn any of it? If you wreck it the government will put you up in another tax payer home so why care.

Success, prosperity and respect are earned not given.

People need to look to themselves not the government for prosperity. Quit making excuses Liberals.

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Johnny Blade

11:07 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Really!! the right? well Paul Ryan voted for every bailout put in front of him .. but yet he wants the little guy to be responsible .. The Neocons have expanded government at every turn ... So raid the social security that people have paid into, devalue the dollar so your money isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on, spend countless money on war to protect the petro dollar ... I think everyone needs a wake up call!!

Mr Lundt

10:02 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

It really is sad when people exhibit such bigotry and not even know it.

The bigotry of low expectations is clear here.

Some people have decided that as a result of the world not being purely egalitarian that they must have a NANNY to help them. They are somehow incapable of of overcoming adversity them selves. Sad...

The community and more importantly you need to have higher expectations for yourself and quit falling into the victim hood mentality. I guess its easier than working hard...

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Hershal Webster

12:06 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

In my life, I have found that the easiest path is working hard. Avoiding work is harder than the work itself.

Racine Progressive

10:51 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

You TeaBaggers are just kidding yourselves. The demographics have changed in this country. And the country will continue to skew more and more towards to the left.
Obama won. Get over it and stop watching Fox News.

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Johnny Blade

11:00 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Use the government to steal from some to give to others, this will keep continuing, HAhaha ... Yeah keep trying to outlaw guns like all tyrannts have done ... We are 16 trillion in debt, how long in little tiny head can this keep going on and on.

People are awaking, the Orwellian propaganda will fail, only the ignorant believe in the Commie Tyrannt

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Steve ®

11:12 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Who likes testicles crouched over and dunked into their mouth Racine?

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Hershal Webster

12:38 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

"the country will continue to skew more and more towards to the left"
Let's wait and see. Remember that the left makes predictions like this, or of doom and gloom, all of the time. Obama is transitioning from the "Free Stuff" mode to a less favorable having to pay for it mode. When the American people, and Pelosi, find out what is in Obamacare they are going to poop a brick. The unions are discovering this on a weekly basis. Everyone above the poverty level is going to have to pay. There are direct taxes and indirect taxes, in the way of massive cost increases, but either way everyone is going to have to pay. FYI, the "Affordable" in ACA is a joke, but when many Americans find out it is not "Free" they won't be laughing.
It is fun to be a great Santa Clause, and give the kids every present they could want, but when the credit card bills come in January the fun stops quick. You lockstep lefties will still be sitting around the Christmas tree, but the rest of the party will have gone.

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Bottom Line

1:38 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Good points, Hershal. Most of the rest of the world cannot afford our luxuries, so they will not be suffering our delusion that money will solve all problems. Further, to continue ignoring the cost of extending everything to everybody only ensures we have a weaker foundation to recover from .... if we ever intend to do such a thing.

Racine Progressive

10:57 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

I can see the influence of the skewed view presented by Fox News in a lot of posts. Such hateful, ignorant posts.
But what can you expect from people that deny climate change and want creationism taught in schools.

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c

11:03 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Racine Progressive...

No posts so as ignorant and hateful as yours.

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Johnny Blade

11:12 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

I don't watch fox news you anti-freedom, hatefull progressive. Why shouldn't i be able to teach my kids what ever i want? Oh you get to decide what i teach my kids you tryannt. ... Go back to your ignorant existence

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Mr Lundt

11:21 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Racine Oppressive again proving who the tolerant and compassionate group is.

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Hershal Webster

12:18 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Who denies climate change? The extent of man made global warming is disputed but I think everyone agrees there are climate changes occurring.

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The Anti-Alinsky

8:39 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Racine Progressive wrote: "But what can you expect from people that deny climate change..."

RP, there is no evidence to support man-made climate change. Not one. There are alot of theories, but nothing to support them.

(second post-first one is stuck in pending limbo)

David Tatarowicz

1:47 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Sowell's metaphor for "Fairness" lies down a false premise. He says:

"One of the most seductive visions of our time is the vision of "fairness" in a sense that the word never had before. At one time we all understood what was meant by a "fair fight." It meant that both fighters fought by the same Marquis of Queensbury rules. It did not mean that both fighters had equal strength, skill, experience or other factors that would make them equally likely to win."

Boxing does have many rules to assure an "equal" match. First of all there are the weight categories -- a Welter Weight does not fight a Heavy Weight. Then there is the system by which the fighter progress up from the bottom to the Contender Level --- the Boxing system, when followed and not manipulated is intended to put Two Equal Fighters (as equal as possible) in the ring --- it is after that "Fair Match" that the factors such as Hard Work, and Natural Talent distinguish the Winner from the Loser.

As Stowell alludes -- rules of the Game of Life are Man-Made !! Ever since our ancestors settled all squabbles with clubs and rocks -- Societie(s) have evolved.

The Old Rough and Rugged Individualism sounds romantic, but I daresay, someone of Dr Stowell's physical stature would not have lasted too long -- it is only the evolution of modern society that has enabled the luxuries of philosophy and thought.

(continued)

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Brian Dey

3:43 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

But even with the rules, it comes down to individual training, God given talent and personal desire. You can't govern that, and that is what the left is trying to do. That is the part of the equation they forget.

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David Tatarowicz

12:16 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

@Brian I agree that God given talent (not something earned), personal desire (which is self motivation) and individual training (which use to be an excellent public school system, which in some part was damaged by the teachers and administrators and helicopter parents -- and which now is something we are diminishing in this state as rapidly as Walker can do it) all play a part.

How would you apply those principles in a way that makes a difference to the majority of the unemployed and underemployed within the Inner City.

Milwaukee has one of the worst poverty rates in the nation, and the Inner City's unemployment rate is beyond accurate counting. What would you do to give those people the ability to employ the elements you say are essential --- not just for one or two anecdotal success stories, but for the majority of those born into that situation?

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c

1:15 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

@David

Born into the situation that THEY created. There is a reason Africa is poor, corrupt, and ignorant. Blame the people, not the area.

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The Anti-Alinsky

3:00 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Here's a solution David...STOP GIVING EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING!!!

We need to get people back to work, not sitting at home talking on their ObamaPhone, watching their ObamaHDTV drinking beer bought with ObamaBucks. If we need to supplement the income that's fine, but everyone needs to put in their 40 hours.

The problem is getting people to work. With all the benefits we provide, many of them don't want to. We need to make staying on all the entitlement programs less desirable than working. If that means someone has to hang around the unemployment office waiting for work, that's fine.

It's not going to hurt them!!!

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Brian Dey

4:31 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

First of all Dave, I would start with locking up criminals for the true term of the sentence. Showing the inner city poor that selling drugs and other serious crimes will be punished to the maximum. Second, I would make prison unbearable. No tennis courts or basketball courts, TV, or any other luxury.

There has to be a desire to good. You won't get that by giving someone food stamps all there lives. Same with consequences in school. We use to have Ethan Allenand other prison like schools that forced bad kids to get an education. Get them out ofthe classroom where they are disruptive to those that want to learn.

And until you get the facts, stop blaming Walker for 40 years of union corruption. Explain to me how spending more and more each year on education for the past 40 years has produced poorer results. And before you blame poverty, we spent billions and billions on poverty and it hasn't gotten one iota better. Throwing money at problems so you can feel bettter about yourself has been the liberal mantra and has been, by all statistical accounts, an abject failure.

The willingness to inpire one's self or one's children can never be obtained by government hadouts and the reverse has happened. The liberal idea has enslaved several generations to thinking that the poverty is an acceptable lifestyle.

David Tatarowicz

1:52 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

We have now evolved to the point that we no longer need so many people in order to produce goods and services.

The most basic and labor intensive jobs, such as hundreds of people picking and packing orders in a distribution warehouse are now replaced by robotic machines that do the work of dozens of people in less than half the time. And they are cheaper.

Whereas it probably took tens of thousands to build the Great Pyramids, the same work would now be done with perhaps less than a hundred and the miracle of hydraulic machinery!

So what is the answer of what to do with all the people we don't need ?

I have not heard a satisfactory answer from either the Liberals or the Conservatives.

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Bottom Line

3:04 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

When the cost of labor rises it invites the expense of mechanisms to replace that labor. That hardly means we don't need people, it simply means that people must be able to offer value that the consumer chooses to afford ... or that the people reconsider what they are willing to accept for compensation.

Many countries are still labor intensive, in fact there are still many labor dominated opportunities in the United States.

What Dr. Sowell recommends is that people recognize the condition and apply the effort required to engage the consumer.

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Keith Worst

7:42 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

@David

Don't worry. Your body will be necessary to produce electricity for the robot overlords.

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Brian Dey

4:35 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

See David, I don't buy that for a minute because your liberal leaders are claiming that we don't have enough workers, that is why we need illegal immigrant workers. Again, enforce the laws on the books and most of society's problems will be taken care of. But the left can't do that. They need victims to win elections. plain and simple. That is why Obama is always preaching that it is someone's elses fault for your predicament. That is total bumpkiss. You are responsible for yourself, Until you take that responsibilty, nothing will ever change for you.

JMB

2:19 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Global Warming? In the 70"s I was taught there was a coming ice age, then it was global warming now it's climate change. Even if there is so called climate change, it is not caused by green house gases. If the liberals believe it is then they should be go after China for pouring out the gases. This is all a hoax to shake down the U.S for money and hurt our economy. Personally I believe climate change is most affected by that glowing orb in the sky. If we could only extinguish that variable heat source we could eliminate global warming. 16.5 trillion in debt and that's what worries the libs

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Brian Dey

3:45 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

History is all you have to look at when it comes to climate change. There have been periods of global warming and periods of global cooling. One such warming event came shortly before the ice age, and I highly doubt that man had much to do about either.

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SkinnyDude

7:57 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Global warming is the biggest academic fraud ever. The liberal media wont even cover the massive rebuttal to the false science.

Dirk Gutzmiller

7:24 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

I was not aware that I could write a blog anonymously on Patch. Who is this anonymous and timid blogger called "Bottom Line"? Afraid of liberals? Oh come on, ,we do not advocate violence, and do not carry weapons. What a chicken sh..t.!

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SkinnyDude

7:54 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Did you see what Liberals did to the Capital ?

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Dirk Gutzmiller

8:48 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

@Sinnydude; Oh, come on. Were you really scared and quivering with the Madison protests, with all your guns? Your hero, Walker, is the antithesis of why a company from Silicon Valley or Redmond would want to come here. Rubes like you scare the next generation of corportations away.

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SkinnyDude

9:02 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

@ DIRK a doodle doo . Wake up. I dont want to blow anyones head clean off unless its absolutlely necessary .Liberal conduct is quite embarrassing by any standard , but self defense isnt about starting a needless or pointless conflict . That is a liberal concept .

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Dirk Gutzmiller

9:13 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Greg - I do not carry a weapon, and will not. That is more brave than all the cheap words you can type tonight.

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Greg

9:29 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Dirk, Don't confuse brave and stupid. Why do you think every post is about weapons? "we do not advocate violence, and do not carry weapons" who the hell is we?

Frances Martin

8:00 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

succeeding through hard work and ability is one thing, and admirable ; succeeding on the backs of others is another.-- If an individual, or corporation pollutes the water or air, keeps its profits but leaves it to the government to clean up its mess, or simply lobbies against regulations that would prevent the pollution,taxing it to pay for the real cost of its success, or imposing governmental regulations to prevent the pollution isn't redistributing wealth. We need to be clear that privatizing the benefit and socializing the risk of an enterprise is not just "unfair"--it's a form of theft.

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Brian Dey

4:38 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

C'mon Fran. You must be the only wealtht person in America to earn your wealth in what you deem a legitimate fashion. If not, then you feel guilty about how you earned your wealth. Again, liberals playing the victim card.

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Bottom Line

11:27 am on Monday, February 25, 2013

I agree Frances, companies should be required to exercise responsible behavior. I also agree that what you describe isn't "redistributing the wealth". Do you have information that helps us realize what the cost to "socialize the risk of an enterprise" has been? I would be interested in some examples, and I would join you in demanding accountability.

That said, I'm missing the connection to this blog. Could you clarify your concern?

Born Free

8:33 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

CLIMATE CHANGE cannot be disputed. 4, hard historic facts, #1) WINTER, #2) SPRING, #3 SUMMER and fact #4) FALL, solely bear witness to it's existance with each fact having it's own unique characteristic's, flowing seamlessly with varying degrees of duration from one to the next with no single geographic location exempt. That's climate change in a nut shell!

Why in all the world do Lefties buy into Gore's global warming cash cow b/s fear when they at the same time religiously believe in Evolution? All living things according to the Evolutionists have biologically adapted and will adapt, yes? If you turn around and then say they won't adapt then that in reality brings you back to Creationism. Again, if you say all thing's will adapt then why all the fear mongering?

Economics 101. All people should stick to Biblical Creationsim because economically it'll save you money by exposing con artists like Al Gore and his Commie bed partners (the Progressive Collectivists) that want to take your hard earned money by selling their fear (paranoia).

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Dirk Gutzmiller

9:08 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

What the hell? Where is so called Born Free going, toward a strict fundamentalism that keeps us much less than Free, even though we are Born in the U.S.A,? Commies went out a long time ago, since people like Born Free bought into buiyng
China crap at Wal-mart.

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SkinnyDude

9:10 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Exactly why they re branded GLOBAL WARMING to CLIMATE CHANGE....Climate change is a non disputed fact . The climate will change as it always has .Global Warming is a complete HOAX and even the term could not be defended by the facts of today.

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SkinnyDude

9:15 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

@ Dirk .....go ahead and lie to us ......like you dont buy stuff from China..LOL

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Greg

9:33 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013

Dirk doesn't wipe because the Koch brothers make toilet paper. The rash contributes to his attitude problem.

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The Anti-Alinsky

10:20 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Dirk wrote: "...Commies went out a long time ago,..."
The Communist Party is alive, but maybe not so well. They still have their basic goal of creating a Marxist Social state, they are just bidding their time until someone like B.O. completely destroys the economy and they can look like "savior of the masses".

Steve ®

1:25 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Federal spending is up $823 per citizen since 2008. Liberals please double that and send in a check to cover your vote. K-thanks. Oh and don't forget about all those illegals you want to support so send in $1200 per year. That should cover it. Well just the extras. We're still in dire debt because of you. And it sucks you can't generate income as a people, you only know how to spend.

So I guess you are the end of the world. You are everything you preach killing the world. You are the cause. You are the disease. You are the epidemic. You are the polar ice caps melting. You are the reason.

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Bottom Line

9:36 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Good point, Steve. It is why I invited liberals to reconsider how they propose to arrest the conditions that they believe are important. The "level the playing field", "tax the wealthy", and "spend more on education" philosophies have not met with success. It only added to the economic burden, and depresses those in need even further.

Perhaps enough concerned liberal minded citizens will adopt a different approach, especially in light of the facts that insist their resolutions failed.

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Randy1949

10:37 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013

I beg to differ. Since 1980 we have taxed the wealthy in their ability to pass on their wealth through inheritance and make money by means of 'investment', neither of which require much hard work on the part of the recipient, less than during the previous decades, and it has not been a success for the economy as a whole. So don't say that taxing the wealthy hasn't been met with success.

I'm not sure the playing field can be leveled, and I don't know the solutions for the increasingly poor results of education, but we haven't been taxing the wealthy anywhere like we did before it all started to slide into the toilet.

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Brian Dey

4:39 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Randy- It will never be level until all parties give forth equal effort and desire. Unless that happens, it should never be engineered to be level by the gorvernment or anyone else.

Bottom Line

12:51 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Randy, the facts show that even if we confiscated the money the wealthy have we could not arrest the economic condition created by mistaken liberal policy ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Sadly, the economy is worse than when this was put together, because the President has spent and mandated programs that belied our condition.

If you review the facts instead of believing nonsense you'd realize we need a different approach, before it is too late.

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Greg

1:44 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Following his meeting with the president yesterday, Rev. Al Sharpton shared President Obama’s plans to increase revenue, particularly to address the upcoming sequester, on Morning Joe this morning. “He did not get all that he wanted from the rich,” Sharpton said. “James Brown had a song too, ‘The Big Payback.’ It’s time they paid back their share, all of it.” Obama told Sharpton and other civil-rights leaders that entitlement reform was on the table, “but he says that you got to start with revenue.”

JMB

1:58 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Like Dirk Gutzmiller is really his name. Who would name their kid Dirk?

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GearHead

10:10 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

@JMB. My mom considered naming me Dirk. Fortunately she got over it, figuring I'd be teased by other kids.

Bottom Line

11:32 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

Ahhh ... what's in a name ....

The sad thing is that he hasn't recognized the import of our challenge, and so he resorts to sophomoric behavior.

Fortunate for him, many of us are doing the due diligence that he cannot fathom.

... carry on.

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Bottom Line

11:42 pm on Sunday, February 24, 2013

This from the latest reconciliation ,,,

"In order to cut real federal spending in fiscal 2013 back to the level it was at in fiscal 2008, the federal government would need to cut actual spending this year to a level that is $362,069,530,000 below what it was last year."

Sad that we continue this spiral that ensures our needy will be left without resolve ...

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/real-federal-spending-82290-american-2008

At the end of the day, Liberals will have to accept that they prevented opportunity for those that will be left wanting.

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morninmist

12:25 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

For the sake of Wisconsin-Walker needs to reconsider his stupid ideology!

SCOTT WALKER = NO JOBS"

http://www.unitedwisconsin.com/scott-wal...

"Gov. Scott Walker Begins Lent With A Confession - NO HEALTH CARE & NO JOBS"

http://www.politiscoop.com/wisconsin-pol...

"States Private Sector Job Creation SLOWED, Census Data Showed"

http://www.jsonline.com/business/states-...

"One Year Under Scott Walker's Policies Produces No Jobs In Wisconsin"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/20...

"UFF DA! SCOTT WALKER JOBS FAILURE NOW BUTT OF MINNESOTA JOKES"
http://www.politiscoop.com/wisconsin-pol...

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Chadwick

1:18 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

Once again morninmist only looking for articles that supposedly help her weak arguments. How about this article on how we have moved up again this year in business climate and 20 spots since 2008: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/149849585.html

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morninmist

1:23 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

hey chad...

What good is moving up in business climate when the move has NOT created jobs!!?????

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Chadwick

1:31 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

Well first off we are battling against some of the worst economic policies in history from the federal govt. Beyond that it does take time to create jobs. We will get over the business climate Doyle and the lefties created and we will convince businesses to grow and move back.

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morninmist

1:40 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

oh chad

move on from Doyle. Best for the repugs to quit the lying also!

janbroni Caterpillar Exec says few new local jobs from mine bill. via @jer45 #wimine #nomine #wiunion #ows thepoliticalenvironment.blogspot.com/2013/02/milwau…
18 minutes ago ·

Milwaukee Exec Says Few New Local Jobs In Mine Bill

Remember the PR spin that the iron mine projected for Northern Wisconsin meant jobs at Milwaukee-based Caterpillar?

Unlikely, says a company's VP:

A proposed iron ore mine in northern Wisconsin is unlikely to create jobs at Caterpillar Global Mining near Milwaukee, and even if it did, those workers would likely come from out of state, a company executive said Tuesday.

John Disharoon, vice president of industry relations for Caterpillar, told the Milwaukee Rotary Club that mining is a vital industry that produces the minerals and fuels needed for the world's rapidly growing and increasingly urbanized population. He noted that the Caterpillar products being made right now in Wisconsin are destined to be exported....

morninmist

1:30 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

They never learn!

@Progress2day I thought teabaggers where going to stop to stop being stupid!! livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/nh-lawma… #wiunion

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Chadwick

1:41 pm on Wednesday, February 27, 2013

From morninmist "to stop to stop being stupid!" oh that is classic

morninmist

12:02 pm on Thursday, February 28, 2013

The GOP #waronwomen continues!

@sgehler
Members of the WI delegation who voted against #VAWA: @SenRonJohnson, @RepRibble, Rep. Sensenbrenner, Rep. Petri. #really #wipolitics

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morninmist

10:16 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Progressive Democrats are doing just fine. The Tea Party?--PLUNK!

@Progress2day Hillary Clinton Would Lead @GovWalker, #lyingRyan In 2016: Poll huff.to/146eTQy #wiunion #wipolitics #wiright

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Steve ®

10:44 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Will misty, keith, bren, john, etc be apologizing for lying about the governor for years?

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ann

10:49 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Special Ed Schultz on MSNBC said it was "days" in which Walker would be wearing the orange suit. Wonder if Special Ed will apologize?

ann

10:38 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Little Boy Tate and Pie Eyes Zielinskii are having a bad day today.

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Brian Dey

10:48 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Poor Democrats, theya just are getting hits from everywhere. first they have to face significant spending in Washington and Chisolm closing the investigation. Good to be conservative today!!!!!

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Steve ®

10:52 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Kleenex is sold out in Milwaukee and Madison. Stock price of P&G skyrockets.

Brian Dey

11:12 am on Friday, March 1, 2013

Obama's press conference is just another blame the Republicans diatribe. Well thiis Conservative is very happy with the sequester. Finally, we have spending cuts. I may not agree with the amount in the defense budget, but everrything else; fine by me!

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Jimbo

12:04 pm on Friday, March 1, 2013

Graham Crackers Zielinski is losing it, watch it and pop some popcorn!!

https://twitter.com/gjzielinski

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Greg

12:14 pm on Friday, March 1, 2013

Graeme Zielinski

@gjzielinski
What do @GovWalker and Jeffrey Dahmer have in common?

I'll start:
They both have more moral fortitude than Gayram Zielinski.

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